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Jason Martell Vs Nancy Lieder
The audio file was supplied via Xfacts.com, but unfortunately low quality and corrupt in a few segments. When the Lou Gentile site is back up I will try to retrieve the missing parts and update the full transcript for posterity, although I seriously doubt anything important is missing.
Lou: Tonight the long awaited debates. Planet X 2003. Tonight we're going to be speaking with Nancy Lieder, Jason Martell and err, guest moderator is John Kenneth Hutchinson. Now I'm going to introduce each one first and err, its probably appropriate to introduce John first. John welcome to the show my friend.
John: Why its a pleasure to be with you Lou, erm, real pleasure for sure.
Lou: And er, tonight we're going to be going over Planet X. What is your thoughts on Planet X John?
John: Well Planet X, I've been mulling this around in my mind a little bit and doing some research on the net, websites and there like things like the Tungusca explosion and the red band of erm, earth around the world, the kind of stuff that's very deep. I'd like to hear what people has to say, Nancy, oh and play it by ear from there. I haven't formed an opinion yet so...
Lou: So you think maybe by tonight you might have er, a little bit better understanding and a better opinion about what's going on with Planet X.
John: I would think so, yes....
Lou: Ok...
John: For sure.
Lou: That wasn't a very good answer, ha, ha, ha.
John: Ha, ha, ha.
Lou: Now we're going to introduce Jason Martell. Jason welcome sir.
Jason: Hello....
Lou: How are you doing...
Jason: Excellent, thanks for having me on Lou.
Lou: Thank you for coming on sir, its a pleasure and an honour. Now....
Jason: It's great to be back.
Lou: .....we're going to have the big Planet X debate tonight and er, Jason this is John Hutchinson, John, Jason.
Jason: John nice meeting you.
John: Pleasure Jason.
Lou: Now, let's bring on Nancy Lieder welcome to the show dear.
Nancy: Ah, hello.
Lou: My God, my phones are actually working correctly.
Nancy: Don't say that the Gremlins are listening.
Lou: Ha, ha, ah Jez, Jason this is Nancy, Nancy this is Jason.
Jason: Hi Nancy.
Nancy: Hi Jason again, we've talked....
Jason: Long time no talk too.
Nancy: Yes.
Lou: And Nancy this is John Hutchinson, John Nancy.
John: Hello Nancy, how you doing tonight?
Nancy: I'm doing good and John I was first introduced to the concepts on your home page this afternoon, uhmmm and I think its fascinating. You sound like a very scientific minded guy.
John: Well I guess you could say that, ha, ha, ha.
Lou: Ha, ha, ha, I'll tell you what, you know John I've always thought of you as being the Doc Brown from Back to the Future, ha, ha, ha.
John: Well I don't have white hair that's the only problem.
Lou: Ha, ha, ha, ha, that's a good thing, but hey. Alright, so now what we're going to do first is just a couple of things here. If you guy's can please, no arguments. no cursing and things like that. I think we can all have a civilised conversation about Planet X, yer know pros and cons whatever. I'm going to give ahh, one person a couple of minutes to make their point and then the second, err, person will have err, the same amount of minutes or what not to make their point. At any time John, ahh, if you feel that there is something that err, that you would like to explain, or have somebody, my, er you know elaborate on, whatever, er, you can go ahead and interject at any time and er, have them clarify that. Please don't speak a thousand words a minute, try and keep it at a nice pace so that everybody can follow along and we'll have, we'll have fun. Everybody ready?
John: I..
Nancy: Yea.
Jason: Sound's good.
Lou: Alright let's flip a coin here to see who's going to go first. Jason heads or tails?
Jason: Heads.
Lou: You got it: Alright let's hear it.
Jason: Ok, alright so you want to give me a couple of minutes.
Lou: Go to town bro,
Jason: I'll try and round it up in a few sentences here. So let me start off, let me start off by saying this first of all. Ah, er, and thank you for the eloquent introduction, as far as the rules erm, I think Nancy and I are civil enough, even though, you know, you know, we can tend to lose our cool over certain topic that we have an interest at heart over, but er, I'm not attacking Nancy Lieder. I'm not attacking you Nancy at all. I'm attacking her information, so anything I'm trying to stick to, you know comment wise tonight, is more based on my opinions of her information. I don't know Nancy as a person, I've never met her, we've spoken a couple of times over the phone, but that's not really enough for me, but er, going forward, you know, I've had a chance to analyse the Zetatalk information for several years now and er, I must admit in the beginning I was somewhat intrigued ah, with the vast amount of text on the site as most people are, tends to lure you in, you want to read and see what its all about, but to just boil it down, you know, now that it comes to a time where certain dates have been predicted, certain events play out the way they have, none of the pictures that we have up there now, you know, on the Zetatalk site show anything that are like a Planet X. I mean its all lens flares, fake photographs, I mean they're just plain nothing. So the other point would be that none of the information that's ever been presented by Zetatalk can prove that a Planet X is effecting our weather. No whether to say that, to say that we're having er, changes in, you know, weather patterns er, is one thing which I still have a comment on, no I don't think there's anything in nature going on, but if there was something going on how do you connect it to a Planet X? There is no proof , as of yet, to say that any Earth changes have been caused by Planet X. And just finally Zetatalk has never produced one shred of actual physical evidence, pictures, materials or otherwise to substantiate the claims that Nancy is actually speaking with aliens, other than her word.
Lou: Ok.
Jason: That'll about sum up the three points again, the pictures, er, information connecting Planet X to weather patterns and er, actual physical evidence, or any type of proof that Nancy Lieder is actually in communication with aliens.
Lou: Ok, now Jason, ah so the people can be familiar with who you are what you do and the information you have available what is your web site? Please give it out.
Jason: Sure, I'll make it brief erm, my website is Xfacts.com. X as in er, fact as in the truth so X fact dot com. Ah, my research has been going on now for about nine years and I call it research on more of a hobby side where I don't have a professional degree in astro-biology er, or space mechanics of any sort, I've just done my homework. My professional day to day job is as a er, graphic designer and as a er, sort of a web specialist with technologies related to media and, you know, and internet feeds and stuff like that.
Lou: Ok..
Jason: So my involvement with this information started back as a college student where I became fascinated with er, structures on Mars and it led me to do my own independent analysis by contacting several people within NASA, actually visiting a couple of ah, co-officials of the jet propulsion laboratories called Mailan Space Science Systems and I just formed my own independent analysis and being familiar with graphic programs and understanding imagery I started to do my own analysis and that's what eventually led me into the topic of Planet X with other various means of influence, from ancient cultures er, so you know, there's there's my expertise as far as where my influence has come from on this topic is more of an independent analysis of imagery having to do with data from NASA or stuff like that also having to do with ancient cultures and tying in the fact that they're are actual references to knowledge that the ancients weren't actually, we didn't think they possessed and that does tie into a Planet X scenario.
Lou: Ok, alright now er, Nancy you have the same amount of time at the end I want you to give out your website and er, information how you got involved with this.
Nancy: Ok, erm, well its, first off I don't think anyone can prove that they're talking telepathically to aliens erm, er, you, you can do er, side show games like er, er, but that really doesn't prove anything, it just ends up being an infinite discussion on whether that proves it or not, but if you're looking for proof I would have to say er, that the co-ordinates of where people have been tracking this inbound brown dwarf er, since erm, 2000 when they, 2001 when they could see it at observatories, early 2002 when there was a couple of infra-red er, images taken and it was found at the spot that the er, co-ordinates X and Y in the sky that the Zetas predicted uhmmm, one in France, one in Florida and people observed it ah, observatories there in the fall of 2002, or the CCD images that were made available to the public on the sci-astro, usenet where astronomers worldwide, amateurs , professionals could pull it down an analyse the FITs files which they did by the tens of thousands er, and these are erm, original files from the camera and then the series of photographs that has come up since erm, around April, May, June. Now for anyone to say they're all lens flares is ridiculous. They haven't looked. I invite the public to go and check the web site where there's photo's........
(corrupted sound file 9:40 to 10:00)
Lou: What is your biggest gripe with Nancy's information?
Jason: Biggest gripe, well I think what we're going to do is continue down a path where Nancy and I will just go back and forth and she can comment on what I have to say and I can comment on what she has to say, but based on what she was just speaking about er, you know, I, I jotted down some notes to myself, just as I was listening to her talk and starting off she mentioned the fact that there was given co-ordinates for the location to er, to image Planet X via the Zetas, the only person, or main constituent of hers doing the imaging was someone named Steve Havas I believe, or something like that HAVAS and er, you know, as far as the astronomical community, I er, went through several, several er, observatories and er, constituents of NASA and, and probed for information if anyone was even willing to comment on the idea of "hey is there any possibility of finding Planet X heading this way," or "do you have any data that would suggest........
(corrupt sound file)
......The point is that now there's been so much bla, bla, blaa, it turned out they ended up turning this thing into a planet finder and its actively posted on the jet propulsion, labs... actually CALTEC but its ITAC who processes all the data. They've got , you know, all this information up there, wide field array images of all the different directions of the sky back in 99 and I, you know, came from a lecture at the jet propulsion laboratories by er, a lady by the name of Dr Michelle Falor, and I asked Michelle Falor, Dr Michelle Falor, you know about this information as far as the, you know, was there anything imaged, have we actually ever seen anything of Planet X, and she's one of lead astronomers about to launch a new satellite er, into space in August that's going to be looking for specifically for brown dwarfs and she referenced this, this wide field infra red explorer, and in 1999 we imaged the sky fully, completely and er, you know, nothing has been found. So you know the only other thing I would say as far as, you know the images and the co-ordinates given ahmm, the astronomical community was aware of Nancy's information and it was well spread throughout various groups of people and one of the groups, another one in my neighbourhood here, the Mount Wilson Observatory and er, you know they had a pretty good sense of humour, you know, one of the images that was thought to be of Planet X turned out to be a reflection of the moon, er the next day they put up a big, you know like balloon in their web cam view of Mount Wilson showing a Planet X and it was just a pun to say just look, we have a sense of humour, but there's nothing there. So you know just wrapping it up, you know, SOHO, being able to see images within SOHO that's a big topic, that's a hard question. SOHO is a very anomalous satellite as far as the things that it imaged, but I'm not an imaging specialist, for you know, the Solar Heliospheric Observatory. I mean I don't have look at this data and actually process it correctly and so I would find it arguable who, you know, of people who, you know layman's credentials who cab put this information up there and be 100% accurate as to what they're saying. It's just their speculation. Back with you Lou.
John: Interesting some of that stuff there. Reflecting back to the Viking series, 1976, when the first imagery came down they saw some worm like things moving towards the tripod on the space craft and they shut down right away, the communication link up to the people. I got that from a journalist actually, which was kind of intriguing. You think that NASA is very open to, let's say, er for viewing for the public all of the stuff that in space?
Jason: Hmmm, who you asking?
John: Ah, I'm asking you Jason.
Jason: Ok, ahh well you know its a shifty question for me because what I would tend to say is that NASA does stand for Never A Straight Answer. Based on my own track record of looking at their information like you mentioned, some of the Viking imagery, that I was first fascinated by and then actually contacting someone by the name of Dr Mike Nailan, asking him point blank questions as just a layman cause student thing, like, "hey is there any possibility these could be artificial?" No its standard wind and weather erosion, its nothing to see, don't even worry about it, its completely nothing.....
John: Hmmm
Jason: .....but there a hundred level, hundred evel, hundred other peer level review scientists that have a different opinion that say "well it does ahhh, deserve further analysis, and so ah, NASA tends to be very one ahh, one sided in its thinking about life and space and er, its very interesting now over the last ten years uhmm, there has been a big turn around resurgence of the idea let's actually start looking for life and start to divulge some of the information that actually shows wow the possibilities are, huh pretty astronomically high that we're going to find something soon here, so....
John: You know Jason its interesting I know some high level scientist, I shouldn't mention their names over the land line here, but, over the radio, but in 1993 I had a visit from one of the fellows and he promised me a tape, an audio tape of unknown radio sources. A hundred and fifty actually and was going to mail it to me and never got around to doing it. He say's its, basically these are signals that NASA doesn't know what they are. I'm wondering if you've heard anything about that?
Jason: He was talking about the feed from a satellite or from the shuttle to the....
John: No this is when their doing their radio astronomy work.
Jason: I see.
John: I was interested in that and the friend er, I should maybe follow up on that to see why he never er, mailed the special audio tape. Just something I thought I would bring in there.
Lou: Very interesting. Nancy your thoughts?
Nancy: Ok, that you errm, I think John addressed them uhhh, if, if NASA was so open, then, then why are the erm, information from the Hubble, for instance, so restricted and you get a lot of argument about whether there's a live feed, it really doesn't flow out to the public. I mean why shouldn't it? Why shouldn't we see today what they imaged yesterday or within a couple of hours what they're imaging, should just be that we can sit and watch it but we're not allowed to. So err, they are a very closed agency erm, and er, as far as the Mount Wilson photographs I invite the public to go to that photo flag under the Zeta face and down a bit, I believe it was the end of May 26th or so when they were taken. That can't possibly be a reflection of the moon, the moon was a crescent moon, you can see it there uhmm, underneath what, when, when ahhh, the person who was taking these images and recording them of the web cam, thought the sun rose and up again into the sky to the left was, woe, here comes the real sun. You can see the second sun rising, I mean the real sun rising to the left was a bright glowing orb over to the right and just under that the crescent moon. You can't possibly have a full, round, bright reflection of the moon when the crescent moon is underneath and it is a crescent moon at that time. So I invite the public to go and look for themselves. Uh, and uhmmm, you know Jason you, I do agree that NASA has a lot of scientists and they're very knowledgeable, but if they're told not to speak about something then they're not going to talk about it. I could rattle off, and I will just a little bit, about the number of people who er, have tried to go to observatories before you could see it and take photographs of it, and look at the sun with sun glasses on, whatever and, and see it for yourself, erm and we, were denied the right to look at those co-ordinates. Uh, and er, and, and then thereafter one woman in Zaire, Africa got her phone tapped uhh, so she told me that she, she very surreptitiously went to yet another observatory and got her infra red image and found it at those co-ordinates, took her nine months to get it made because she said my phone was tapped and I was harassed. Er, we've had more people, Steve Havas in Vancouver, there's a fellow in Washington DC who was working on our team with Steve. We have an astrophysicist in France, a number of them as a matter of fact, one guy who took the first infra red sighting, early 2002, is John Oliver in Florida who took it to try and challenge me and, and started a thread called "OK Nancy where is it?" on Sci-Astro and er, and I pointed where the Zetas had me point, put around, a circle around it and inside that circle when you did a, ahh, a checking there it was, it was a pinpoint at time, coming in, but uhmm, that was his submission. So er, its not, its not a true statement that only Steve Havas was doing the imaging. Erm, he's made himself available as a contact, perhaps that's why you think that. Ermmm, I, I would anticipate that NASA is, is er, Planet X is a big threat to the establishment. Face on Mars, alien presence, this is kind of minor, if people believe in aliens or, or er, you know they suspect already, how is that threatening the establishment greatly? Planet X causes this periodic upheaval that, like happened at the last Jewish exodus, the last time was the Jewish exodus and erm, is liable to cause tsunamis, great earthquakes erm, inland flooding of river basins er, cities dropping er, rail lines disrupted, communications disrupted, satellites torn out of the skies, maybe, maybe not say's the establishment so at all costs reduce panic. There was even some discussion recently and er, that, that was hitting the internet about people having conventions and talking about if something big was coming should you warn the people or should you reduce panic at all costs? If there was nothing you could do about it just be mom. And if you watch some of the movies that are released like erm. Armageddon or Deep Impact they never telling the public until after they've got the problem solved. And, and this is the most mould the government thinks er, if we can't do anything about it lets not have children trampled in the streets, the problem with this is they know and if, will they ever warn the people? When, at what point are they going to start saying to the people get away from the clim... and don't be under bridges and buildings that may fall on you, or are they just not going to say anything? So that's the issue the Zetas really have with the establishment in this warning because I've yet to hear any government arm warn the people and explain what that anomaly is next to the sun, its making the sun so intense right now and over to you Lou.
Lou: Do you, do you think Nancy, that er, the channelling of the aliens, or the er, the, the, the, ah its basically, the most part what it is is channelling aliens, do you think that that er, is, is for the most part giving you more credibility or is that , in your eyes, what is giving you more credibility than anybody else, just talking about Planet X?
Nancy: I think its a lot the message to get out there Lou, er because there's an element of doubt and erm, and it can be attacked to begin with, "Ah its this crazy lady talking to aliens, right?" You know, erm, it, it erm, its already discredited from that standpoint, so that the message got out that internationally known erm, there's a huge amount, very few countries that I don't regularly get e-mails from where people don't know about it, where it hasn't appeared in a newspaper, magazine or, and the like and the topic of discussion, so erm, if I was strictly a scientific person and saying "I've discovered it," I would be erm, countered more aggressively than I have been because they could just throw out "where's she getting that information just from aliens she's nuts." So it has allowed me to get out there and get the message out there, yes Lou.
Lou: Ok, Jason what do you think about what I just asked her?
Jason: Er, as far as getting her message out there?
Lou: Yea, as far as the alien channelling is concerned.
Jason: Well, you know that's actually funny going to comment on that last on this little bit of time I have left but I'll start with that first I guess. Erm as far as the Zetas you know I'm pretty open minded to the idea of alien contact, I actually have several acquaintances that, you know speak of the same thing as Nancy. I, I, I, that are channelling aliens. They have experience with these beings and er, you know you take the information as you would take it. Now when you hear it from someone's mouth you know personally well, erm, you have to start to wonder like, Wow! Is this person crazy or what's, what's going on and a couple of people I'll mention off the top of my head are Whitley Striber and Steve Neil, which I'm sure Nancy is familiar with both. Erm, you know Steve Neil, just going off his name someone who is very well known within the ufology community of having well known contact with the Zetas and er, Steve Neil is a very close friend of mine and he disagrees completely with Nancy Lieder and say's that even the information she posts on her site about Steve Neil is in fact incorrect. So that would be my take as far as, you know the Zetas yes I guess its possible that beings do exist and communicating with humans because from my own knowledge base I've seen enough information to realise that Wow! This is an actual possibility as, you know appalling as it is very possible that the Zetas could be real. However erm, you know again like I said earlier being able to prove what Nancy Lieder is saying as its coming from her only with no evidence to prove she speaking, you know or in contact with these Zetas, you know you only have her word. But er, if I can I'd like to take a couple of minutes and just address some of the comments you were just discussing while Nancy was speaking last.
Lou: We're going to take a short break....
Jason: Perfect.
Lou: When we come back we'll let you have your say so make sure you have everything ready................
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