"....you are right that the Inc has no point after May/June this year"

Jan Rypdal

Jan 26, 2003

Troubled Times Inc_ Jan 26, 2003 Minutes.htm

http://www.troubled-times.org/jan2603m.htm

Interestingly you'll note those in attendance with the mention of "Shirley" yet there is not one log entry for anyone under that name. The two interesting factors here are Jan's request for image analyzing software, (refused) and discussions on disbandment should the 12th planet fail to materialize.

Minutes
Board Meeting
January 26, 2003

The meeting was called to order at approximately 18:10 UT. Those attending: Brent (President, and chairing the meeting); Shirley, Gerard, Jan, Mary, Roger, Stan

Agenda Item 1: Minutes of Last Meeting – Approval

- Since there were no comments or questions concerning the minutes of the last meeting, they were considered ratified as correct.

 

Agenda Item 2: Troubled Times, Inc. Booklet – Discussion

- It was decided that when the Booklet stock, at present standing at 175, drops to 100, Mary will re-order, if time permits.

Agenda Item 3: Treasurer’s Quarterly Report – Report

- There were no particular comments on this report, except that people await full-blown report, probably to be delivered next meeting.

Agenda Item 4: Imaging Software – Discussion and Vote

- Jan had suggested in an earlier email that professional imaging software be purchased for the imaging team, but since the team itself has not requested such software, the Board did not see any advantage to its purchase.

- Jan withdrew his proposal.

 

Agenda Item 5: Server Project – Discussion

- Discussion of this project was tabled, since the server has not yet found a co-location, and until it does, no decisions can really be made.

Agenda Item 6: Ongoing Projects – Discussion

- Roger gave his Acreage Project Report, not much going on through the winter.

- Shirley’s Short-Wave Radio Report had been read, and the board Members were concerned that reimbursement should be made to Shirley for her acquisition of a radio with the 6-metre band, at a cost of $100.00. Shirley was opposed to this, stating that the 6-metre band was not necessary for Inc. purposes, but was just something she had personally wanted.

- With regard to the Seed Team, Roger has seed ready to distribute upon request.

Agenda Item 7: Troubled Times, Inc. Elections and Future in 2003 – Discussion and Vote

- It was decided that Brent will call the election today, and Shirley will take over from there, as per the bylaws.

- Re the future of the Inc., it was decided that whatever happens, Booklets can still be sent out until the very last moment.

- Motion, made by Shirley, seconded by Mary: “THAT we vote now to set a date for disbanding at the next meeting”. The motion failed, with three votes in favour, three against, and one abstention.

- Motion, made by Roger, seconded by Jan: THAT “we table this and get some input from our founder”. Carried unanimously.

The meeting was officially adjourned at 19:08, UT.

http://www.troubled-times.org/jan2603l.htm

Troubled Times Inc_ Jan 26, 2003 Log.htm

Log
Board Meeting
January 26, 2003

(Brent) OK, I call the meeting to order... Item I ratification of the minutes. Comments or objections?
(Jan) No comments
(Roger) Nothing here
(Mary) none
(Brent) Gerard, stan?
(Gerard) none
(Stan) sorr, no
(Roger) (Hello Stan, how's it going?)
(Brent) No problem......the minutes are ratified as correct.
(Brent) Item 2 Booklet discussion and report. Comments?
(Stan) good roger how about you
(Brent) Everyone got Marys report?
(Roger) fine, fine
(Roger) Read Mary's report. US orders are down?
(Mary) Just sporatic. Depending on Nancy's appearances on shows.
(Roger) I see. We are still expecting an uptake though.
(Mary) Hopefully! I am concerned that all the orders are coming from the U.S.
(Mary) and not from overseas.
(Roger) 175 on hand is a good number. I think the precedent we set last meeting was to not let the stock fall below 100. Is this the case?
(Brent) Mary: European orders are completely off?
(Mary) Could be the war thing.
(Mary) Yes, Brent, completely.
(Stan) There are so many distractions, Iraq, Stock Market etc. People don't know what to think
(Gerard) could be or don't want to send money to a oversea country ... that might be it too
(Mary) Gerard, absoulely!
(Jan) Mary, I think most Europeans would download the pdf instead of writing for the booklet.
(Mary) Jan, and I always suggest this on e-mail request for information.
(Brent) Jan: good point...musch easier!
(Jan) Also, it's more complicated for Europeans to get a money order etc.
(Gerard) Indeed Jan...
(Jan) On the Iraq question, I don't think the distraction is as bad in Europe, most Europeans (except Blair in UK) is in the process of distancing themselves from the US in this question, letting UN decide
(Mary) We are getting more requests for multiple booklets. 2 or 3 at a time.
(Brent) Mary: thats interesting.....from groups?
(Mary) No, individuals.
(Gerard) aha
(Brent) So, as Roger mentioned, when we get down to 100 booklets, we will automaticlly reorder?
(Mary) When the booklets get down to 100 I will send a post out.
(Mary) Assuming the money is still there and there is time to reorder we will.
(Brent) OK, sounds good.
(Brent) Any more booklet discussion?
(Mary) I.E. if we are down to 100 on May 1st, I would assume we would not reorder.?
(Brent) Mary: true! :)
(Gerard) indeed
(Jan) Please refresh my memory - how long time does it take for delivery, including mailing it from the printers to Mary etc.?
(Mary) I get the books from Roger in about 3 days.
(Jan) And how long time from order to delivery, Roger?
(Roger) I ship media rate. The time from Mary's request to shipping is about 4 or sometimes 5 days (if there's an intervening Sunday). So that would be a week total!
(Stan) Nancy has said sometime after May15 so there may be time if your willing to send
(Mary) Overseas delivery takes about 2 weeks, regular U.S. media mail takes about a week, they say.
(Gerard) stan: doubt that that will work ..
(Stan) Yes, too many things going on by that time
(Jan) I agree - the Zetas have said May/June, so when to reorder should probably be decided later. May 1 sounds a bit early cut-off date
(Brent) Lets just see where we stand in a few months: quantity of books, etc.
(Jan) It all depends on the development during the coming 4 months, though
(Roger) But that cutoff date is really up to the volunteers who must handle the booklets and ship them out.
(Brent) True Roger.....Shall we move on?
(Jan) Roger, understood.
(Brent) OK, Item 3 Treasurers Report....Comments?
(Mary) Looks pretty straight forward, no comments.
(Jan) No comments. I await Nancy's report hopefully next meeting.
(Stan) none here
(Brent) Gerard, Roger?
(Gerard) none
(Roger) I'm anticipating the full-blown report as well.
(Brent) Jan: yes, we will look forward to the regular report.
(Brent) OK, Item 4 Imaging software....comments?
(Jan) This was my suggestion, as there has been many comments about the lacking features in the freeware software being used by the imaging team
(Roger) I agree with the posted sentiments in that we should not provide this software when the committee in general has not requested it.
(Jan) Too bad Steve isn't here, though
(Brent) Shirley: I agree, Roger. The Imaging Team seems satisfied with their results.
(Roger) The freeware may be lacking, but I suspect we will still catch flak from the desenters and skeptics, even with a professional analysis package.
(Brent) True Roger.
(Gerard) Brent: and i agree too. Right Roger
(Jan) It is difficult to demand that they should use better software, but I had really hoped it would affect the quality of the analysis
(Roger) They may claim that an untrained user can't perform a proper analysis, even with the most powerful computer and anaylsis software.
(Stan) How much longer will it be used anyway, when it becomes naked eye visible in a couple of months
(Roger) This is very common in the scientific community.
(Jan) There are a number of other factors indicating that the timeframe is May 2003 as the Zetas have indicated, but the lack of quality images and quality analysis bothers me
(Roger) As it bothers all of us, Jan.
(Gerard) Jan: zetatalk recently stated that the planet will be vissible for the naked eye around the end of March
(Gerard) i don't see a point in buying proffesional software..
(Mary) Most members will not accept the images, no matter the quality, until they can see it in the sky themselves.
(Roger) Exactly Mary!
(Jan) Gerard, they have stateed a lot about visibility and imaging that is crap. Given that we can hardly spot it with CCD today, I am not too sure about naked eye in March
(Brent) Plus, we can't get around the fact that no member of the imaging team has requested the software! It would be like Shirley requesting a rototiller, but not planting a garden.
(Jan) Anyhow, given that Steve is not here, and you guys feel it won't make a difference, I withdraw the proposal
(Brent) very well, Jan. More discussion?
(Roger) The intent was valid, Jan, just ill-timed.
(Brent) True Roger.
(Roger) If we could have anticipated this controversy, we might have purchased the analysis package in advance.
(Roger) I don't think it would have much difference.
(Brent) OK, moving on to Item 5 Server Project. Hs everyone read my report? Questions?
(Jan) Roger, it could have made a difference in the quality of analysis. Unfortunately, the debunkers have the edge currently, as most of the findings are only noise. However, if May 2003 is to happen as predicted, Planet X has to grow rapidly in size soon, ending the frustrations
(Jan) Brent, report read.
(Jan) When will Jurian and you work on getting ity operational? Any arrangements yet?
(Gerard) just to bad that you couldn't find a co location yet
(Brent) Jan: I have emailed Jurian to set up a time, and have looked for him on IRC as he requested. Still haven't hook up with him. Plus, it's difficult because I am about 11 behind him.
(Brent) I am confident that he and I will be ableto hook up and do the software reload.
(Jan) I can understand the difficulties. (Btw, isn't is 12h time difference? WHat time is it at your location now?)
(Brent) Gerard: No luck with the colocation service. All hardware has been moved to ... ! I'm thinking of hooking it up in my home via cable modem, (when I get a home!)
(Brent) Jan: it's 8:50 am here
(Jan) OK, then it's 11h. I seemed to remember it was 12h when I was to ... some time back. Anyhow, the time difference makes it a bit difficult...
(Brent) Jan: yes indeed. The time difference could be 12h during daylight savings time. Although ... does not change.
(Jan) Aha - there you go.
(Mary) Until you get a co location or alternative hook up, lets table this.
(Jan) Agreed.
(Brent) Good idea Mary....Hopefully I will have better info next meeting!
(Brent) Moving on to Item 6, Ongoing projects.
(Brent) Roger? any spring plans?
(Brent) Roger?
(Roger) Yes. We will plant a normal garden and hope to get some harvest this year. I may over-emphasize potatoes a bit in hopes of preserving a few.
(Roger) After last year's disaster with the beans, I will plant more modestly and conserve existing seed.
(Roger) If needed, we will expand the existing planting space.
(Roger) That's pretty much it, for now. I haven't had much chance to discuss this with Stan so I'm sure next month's report will have more details...
(Gerard) back in a moment brb
(Brent) OK, very good Roger!
(Brent) Moving on to short wave report.....comments?
(Roger) None here.
(Stan) none here
(Roger) I just got a phone call and need to go pick up some very cold young girls that just got out of church. I'll be right back...
(Mary) None here
(Brent) OK Roger.....
(Jan) Seems like Helena is making some good efforts and get good training in running a net - seems like good training for the upcoming events
(Mary) Opps, do we need to reimberse Shirley for the $100 for the new unit?
(Brent) Shirley: No, that's all right. The nonprofit provided the antenna, and that's good enough for me.
(Jan) I would recommend we do such reimbursement. Brent, any viewpoints on this? Could we vote on this as Any Other Business today?
(Brent) Shirley-Jan, the only difference between this unit and the other one is that this one has the 6 meter band.
(Brent) Shirley - I wanted this band, it wasn't necessary for nonprofit activities. Therefore I should pay for it.
(Jan) Shirley, this is still something you do for the Inc, and if 6m was needed for the Inc project, I think it should be an Inc expense
(Brent) Shirley - Jan, I want to pay for it, and keep the unit. besides, it is leased to own by the Canadian Nat Inst. for the Blind.
(Jan) OK
(Brent) Shirley - The nonprofit had nothing to do with the purchase of the radio, just the antenna.
(Brent) more comments?
(Roger) Okay, I'm back
(Brent) Ok Roger.....good!
(Mary) OK, then thank you for the report Shirley!
(Roger) I'm inclined to agree with Jan that the radio might be reimbursible.
(Brent) Roger......read further down - Shirley's explaination.
(Roger) I read that as well. I was just voicing my support.
(Brent) OK, thanks Roger.
(Brent) Shirley - thanks wveryone for your concern!
(Brent) Moving on the Seed Team Project.....Roger?
(Jan) Brent, I seem to remember that we originally decided to buy the rig to Shirley. Did this never happen, did we only cover the antenna?
(Roger) I have seed. (joke)
(Brent) Shirley - Jan, the antenna was all I asked for because the rig is lease to own from the C.N.I.B. for $375.00 a YEAR.
(Brent) Good one Roger :)
(Roger) Nancy should be just about out of her available stock for distribution. Mine is ready and waiting requests. Soon it will be getting late for planting and prepping so request will eventually be as intended (for storage and use after the ps).
(Brent) Thanks Roger, glad to see we are getting the seed out there!
(Roger) Any amounts remaining after May will be stored as "care packages" for the displaced and needy.
(Brent) Hmm....good idea, and makes great sense!
(Jan) Roger, will you be available for giving advice via e-mail? E.g. my location is supposed to be close to the new Equator, so the current plants may not make it post-PS. Should I buy seed the next time in South Africa? (You don't need to answer this now, but is this type of questions something you will be able and willing to answer?)
(Roger) Of course!
(Jan) Good - should such questions be sent directly to you or do you subscribe to the TT Forum?
(Roger) I'm still on the forum (and the seed list). I will also answer private questions.
(Jan) Thanks!
(Brent) OK, moving on then.....
(Brent) Item 7 Board Elections
(Brent) According to the bylaws, we need to have elections every February, Poleshift notwithstanding.
(Brent) It seems a moot point, but we must uphold the bylaws.
(Brent) comments?
(Jan) Agreed, we must uphold the bylaws. Shirley, can't you just nominate the board as is to continue for another time period?
(Roger) I agree. I also think we should go through the whole process of nominations and such.
(Roger) We may find that there are no new nominations or anything but incumbents, so the election may be a motion rather than a runoff.
(Brent) Jan: Shirley was just commenting on that, and suggested the same thing you have!
(Gerard) This could be a good idea yes
(Brent) True Roger....I will call the elections, Shirley will take over from there, and we'll just run with it.
(Jan) Sounds like a plan!
(Brent) OK, Good. I'll call the elections today, and we'll have a February meeting later in the month to allow for the election process.
(Roger) Good
(Brent) OK, moving on to Nonprofit future status
(Brent) Comments?
(Mary) I feel we should put a target date to disband.
(Roger) I agree
(Gerard) yes
(Mary) This will give Nancy time to close down the INC. legally. And
(Mary) time for us to get on with our personal preparations.
(Jan) Brent, you are right that the Inc has no point after May/June this year. Either PX comes around, and there will be no Internet, or PX does not come around, in which case the TT mission has failed. Either way, TT Inc will need to be terminated. However, do we need to plan this? If PX comes around as predicted, who cares??
(Mary) As far as the booklets are concerned, they can still be sent out until they are gone.
(Mary) Has anyone talked to Nancy about this?
(Brent) I like the idea of the target date. Jan: we do need to plan for this because of donated items and money that need to be returned to the doners.
(Brent) Mary: Nancy is aware of this agenda item, and had no objections.
(Mary) We could still operate the board on an unoffical status.
(Jan) I assume that closing down the Inc wiil require a lot of red tape, IRS approval, and returning donated items and money. Do we have the funds to return anything to the donors?
(Mary) The returned funds will depend on the last day of operation.
(Roger) I seem to recall that the by-laws address this issue. We are directed to shutdown this year.
(Brent) Jan: seems like it. and in some cases it can be discussed with the doner.
(Jan) My suggestion is: Continue as now as long as possible, with the exception of those that will be moving to sites where they have no Internet access. If the PS happens as predicted, why would we need to disband?
(Brent) Roger: I didn't see that, although I could have missed it.
(Jan) I cannot remember having seen anything on this in the bylaws.
(Mary) Good point Jan, I personally would like closure. A vote of confidence that PX is real.
(Roger) It may be that it was merely discussion in a prior meeting, etc.
(Brent) Jan: as I said, we need closure for the doners of money and items. Some may want these things for their own preperation.
(Mary) We could close out all assets, returning $ etc, and still keep the TT,Inc. functional.
(Jan) Brent, which items? We surely don't have any money to return to any donors!
(Brent) Jan: OK, we should post on TT-Inc the fact of dissolution, and see what any doners have to say.
(Mary) Shouldn't we have a date for the donors benefit?
(Jan) Brent, you are right. If PX comes around as predicted, I think nobody cares. If it doesn't, we must be prepared for some serious legal work. Isn't this a tad early to decide, given the imaging controversy?
(Brent) Mary: I agree. Question: if a doner has donated, are we obligated to return the donation? Or just continue useing the funds till the end?
(Mary) I believe the funds only need to be returned when the TT is legally closed.
(Brent) Shirley: if we go on sending out the booklets even after the INC is closed, odds are the funds will run out anyway.
(Mary) Shirley, this is true and if there are no funds for postage I am more than willing to fund it.
(Mary) ....till all the booklets are gone.
(Roger) It's a bit of a shame that we no longer have a lawyer in the membership.
(Brent) Should we table this till next meeting, and try and get answers to these questions?
(Mary) Maybe we should think a bit longer on this and I personally would like Nancy's input on this question.
(Roger) I wonder if Nancy has addressed this issue?
(Brent) OK, shall we get Nancy's input, and discuss again next meeting?
(Mary) To recap: 1. should we disband, 2. if we do, when, any others?
(Jan) I think we should table this. Get Nancy's viewpoints on this, and reopen the issue next meeting.
(Brent) Mary: no that's it.
(Jan) Mary, first I think we should ask WHY would we want to disband? To give the Board members time to get to their safe locations, or for any other or legal reason?
(Gerard) Brent: i think that would be better yes
(Roger) Both reasons are valid, I think.
(Mary) Jan, the mission statement of the TT would no longer be valid after May 15ish.
(Brent) Mary: very true, I forgot about that. It is clear in the mission statement.
(Jan) But if PX comes about as predicted, which legal reason would we have to disband? Wouldn't this only be valid if PX does NOT come around?
(Mary) Jan, if that planet appears to the naked eye, I am not going to be too interested in closing down the Inc.
(Mary) My thoughts will elsewhere. I will continue mailing the booklets to the end.
(Brent) Jan: I would think it would apply either way. The mission statement says "Poleshift" AND May 15th. Both are valid.
(Roger) Mary, when that planet appears, my thoughts will certainly be on disbanding the Inc. so that I can turn my attention elsewhere!
(Jan) Mary, I agree. Whether the PS happens May 15 or June 1 doesn't matter.
(Mary) Roger, then lets get it clear in our minds before that happens so the disbandment goes smoothly.
(Jan) Roger, if you're off, that's OK. But that does require we disband the Inc?
(Brent) JAN: The mission statement requires we disband, at least around May 15th.
(Brent) OK, lets have a vote:
(Gerard) I think that Nancy should have a voice in this
(Jan) As I said before: If PX is visible to the naked eye, and the Pole Shift imminent, we may need to concentrate on other things than disbanding the Inc. But if there is no PX and no Pole Shift, then disbanding will be required, and probably rather painful
(Mary) WE could ammend the rules to have our last board term to end May 15th!
(Brent) Shirley: I move that we vote now to set a date for diabanding at the next meeting.
(Mary) OK, enough, lets just wait and see what Nancy has to say. She is the one that set this up she must have an idea of how and when to disband.
(Roger) I move we table this and get some input from our founder.
(Brent) PEOPLE: THER IS ALREADY A MOTION ON THE TABLE
(Jan) I second Roger's motion that we table this issue
(Roger) Brent, it is possible to have two motions on a table.
(Brent) JAN; SHIRLEY HAS A PREVIOUS MOTION ON THE TABLE. LET'S READ PEOPLE!
(Roger) No one seconded Shirley's motion.
(Mary) I second Shirleys motion, I want a date.
(Stan) I want a date too
(Brent) Ok, the vote if to set a date for disbanding, and further discussion at the next meeting.
(Brent) all in favor vote Yes, opposed, no
(Mary) I vote yes.
(Jan) Fellas, I think you are ignorant to the implications of disbanding the Inc, IRS implications etc. I see no reasons to do any official disbanding unless there is no PX and no PoleShift
(Brent) Shirley: yes
(Brent) brent: yes
(Jan) I vote NO
(Roger) no
(Stan) no
(Brent) Gerard: your vote?
(Gerard) no would rather have Nancy's say on this
(Gerard) abstain
(Brent) OK, motion fails.
(Brent) Do I have a motion to table the discussion for the next meeting?
(Jan) Roger made such a motion, and I seconded it
(Brent) With Nancy's input
(Brent) OK, now lets vot on Rogers motion.
(Jan) Yes
(Roger) yes
(Gerard) yes
(Stan) yes
(Brent) Vote yes to approve, no to object
(Mary) yes
(Brent) Shirley: yes
(Brent) Brent: yes
(Brent) This motion carries...discussion tabled till next meeting to get Nancy's input, and to further evaluate the legal implications Jan mentioned.
(Brent) Good point, Jan!
(Roger) We certainly need to revisit setting the date at the next meeting. It should be a vote item on the agenda.
(Brent) Yes Roger, good point.
(Brent) OK, any more discussion on this or any item?
(Gerard) not realy
(Stan) no
(Mary) none here, thanks Brent.
(Brent) Very well, meeting is officially adjourned.
(Gerard) okay
(Jan) Roger, agreed. I would however suggest setting the date AFTER May 15, so that disbanding only occurs if there is no Pole Shift. Let's do this next meeting!
(Brent) Thanks everybody.....this disbandment is certainly an emotional issue! for me too!

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