A Bridge Too Far

TT-Inc 8th June, 2003

Session Start: Sun Jun 08 12:51:16 2003

(Brent) It is now eight minutes after the hour, I call the meeting to order.
(Brent) Thanks Mary...
(Jan) I suggest we make a split between ZetaTalk and Troubled Times now, and deal with the issues at hand for this Board Metting. OK, Brent?
(Brent) Item 1 minutes of the last meeting: comments or questions?
(Mary) no comments.
(NancyL) Jan, please identify the nexus between ZetaTalk and the nonprofit, as there IS none.
(Stan) none here either
(Brent) JAN! NANCY! PLEASE STOP FOR THE MOMENT UNTIL WE GET TO ITEM 2!

[Obviously Jan and Nancy have been falling out prior to the meeting which has been cut from the minutes, prior to the start. Note: Eight minutes past the hour for the meeting start.]
(NancyL) No objection on the Minutes, etc.
(Brent) If there are no objections, the minutes are ratified as correct.
(Jan) No comments or questions.
(Roger) No comments
(Brent) Ok, Item 2: The future of the nonprofit - discussion & vote
(Brent) Any comments? thought, suggestions?
(Roger) Kind of a can of worms, Brent.
(Brent) True Roger! :)
(Mary) I personally believe the nonprofit has met it's mission.
(NancyL) The mission statements, section 1 of the Bylaws, states "The primary objective and purpose of Troubled Time, Inc. is educational, to educate the public on the likelihood of the pending pole shift, solutions on how to deal with such a cataclysm, and life afterwards.
(Brent) Helena: I agree
(NancyL) And section 2, Objectives, states "Troubled Times, Inc. seeks to build solutions sets for surviving the pole shift anticipated to occur in last spring/early summer of the year 2003, and the means to live a healthy life afterwards.
(NancyL) Thus, the nonprofit in no way states ZetaTalk, nor insists on 2003.

[But TT-Inc is Nancy and thus also Zetatalk. Hence she is the connection.]

(Mary) We have no further information to collect and add except for perhaps the Z's input but that is dealt with on Zetatalk.
(Stan) I agree also Helena. I don't see what else we can do
(NancyL) Additionally, in view of the SOHO showing Planet X, the Moon now reflecting it, and numerous photos (Jan's personal experiences notwithstanding) from all over the world, I feel it premature.

[Nancy had to get that little dig in you'll all note. The rat deserting the sinking ship.]

(Roger) We can go into maintenance mode where the booklet is still offered and the seed stock is kept current, etc.
(Mary) Nancy, what do you feel the Inc. can add to help with the pole shift disaster at this late date?
(Brent) Helena: Carrying on will be a problem because of lack of credibility.
(Roger) The shift may still happen at any time and our credibility was always in question.
(NancyL) Mary, it is not so much what it can ADD, other than production of the booklet and distribution, but the workload to dissolve.
(Mary) Ah, so if we continue the booklets can continue to be mailed. That makes sense.
(NancyL) This requires a lot of steps on my part, in particular Brent's part, and at a time when I am immensely busy, and Brent not otherwise, to incur this workload is rediculous.
(Mary) Roger, are there still requests coming in for booklets?
(Brent) Helena: Our credability is even more in question since we gave a specific date, and the shift did not happen on that date.
(Roger) None lately
(NancyL) Roger, I agree, NOTHING has changed, and all the physical evidence is that it IS upon us.
(NancyL) I mean, the SOHO showed it twice! May 16 and 18.
(Roger) Brent, did we give the date?

[No but Nancy did and she is the TT-Inc.]

(NancyL) I move we consider dissolving if we reach the end of summer and no shift has occurred.

[At last a final deadline.]

(NancyL) There is frankly no RUSH.
(Roger) I've been keeping track of some of the dialogue on the watch list and there are some that still support the ps theory.

[Not much and they're all die-hards.]

(Mary) I would like to restate Nancy's motion. Let's put a DATE on it. Say the last sunday in July.
(Brent) Roger, that was Helena's comments - but the Zetas gave the date.
(NancyL) Roger, only "anticipated to occur late spring/early summer 2003" in the Objectives.
(Roger) The Zetas are not members of this corporation.
(Jan) Brent, are you there?
(NancyL) This means, until "early summer" is past, the anticipation is not closed.
(Roger) Exactly Nancy.
(NancyL) Also, "anticipated" does not indicate certainty.
(Brent) Yes Jan, I'm here....
(Roger) Besides, corporations change their goals and objectives all the time.

[Yea, and large corporations are similarly corrupt, deceitful and power hungry. Good comparison Roger.]

(Roger) We can continue, and we may have sufficient support among the membership to continue.
(NancyL) Roger, Lou Gentile server could not audio stream for everyone who wanted it last Friday night, first time in my memory this occurred to him.

[Say's who Nancy? Lou's server was inundated because everyone wanted to hear you squirm and the weren't disappointed.]

(Brent) Helena: let me make my position clear: I have NO objection to staying active.
(NancyL) I am overloaded with interview requests also, so lots of interest especially in view of current earth changes, etc.
(Jan) Everything went quiet here, but I have no error messages. Anybody else online?
(Mary) By staying active, the only thing we will actually be doing is sending booklets. That will be our only active objective. Is that right?
(NancyL) CBS reportedly has dozens of requests daily to address the anomaly next to the Sun, people are SEEING it, etc.
(NancyL) Mary, I second your amendment.
(NancyL) Last Sunday in July sounds reasonable to me.
(Brent) Mary: this is true
(Stan) What do we do until July
(NancyL) Roger, correct, and I meant to also read into the log that the Troubled Times mailing lists, like tt-watch, are also NOT a nonprofit operation whatsoever.
(NancyL) They were in existence before the nonprofit, and are an independent entity.
(Mary) Stan, grow your garden (-;
(Roger) One solution to our problem of dissolving the inc is to let it continue until there is no more funding.
(Brent) Stan: we will send out booklets
(NancyL) Roger, yes, last Sunday in July the nonprofit may decide to modify the Bylaws, which would require, my understanding, a membership vote.
(Brent) until the money runs out
(Stan) We are trying Mary, if we can keep the critters out
(NancyL) Stan, until July, you grow seeds, I ship seeds, Roger ships booklets, and we watch the geological changes and the skies, I gather.
(Brent) OK, Mary has a motion, seconded by Nancy to wait until the last Sunday in July to discuss and vote on disolving the Nonprofit.
(Stan) I guess there is no harm in that
(NancyL) Roger, yes, discussion on just how to dissolve, should that be the decision, could take many turns.
(Brent) We will have a vote: yes, no, abstain
(Brent) brent: yes
(Brent) Helena: yes
(NancyL) Yes
(Mary) yes
(Roger) yes
(Stan) yes
(Brent) lets give Jan a few moments to rejoin for the vote....
(Jan) Hello?
(Brent) Jan, wecome back... we have a vote on the table
(Jan) Hi - everything looked OK, but I did not receive any input since Item 1.
(Brent) :wait until the last Sunday in July to discuss disolving the nonprofit. Vote to you
(Roger) I've been in communication with a former board member and long-term member of the inc. He supports the continuance of the inc even in the event of no ps in the coming months. I agree that the inc has accomplished a lot and there could be more to do...
(Jan) Has there been any discussion so far?
(Brent) Jan: yes, quite a bit
(Brent) WE are all in agreement to wait
(Jan) Sory I lost out of the discussion.
(Brent) just waiting on your vote
(Brent) I agree Roger
(Jan) Then just for the record, my vote is NO.
(Brent) OK, we have 1 NO, and 6 YES - the vote carries.
(Brent) More discussion on the nonprofit, or the PX?
(Jan) I agree that the Inc has achieved a lot, but we have had a very close relationship to the failed prediction as of second half of May 2003. The given time has come and passed, and so should we.
(NancyL) July is when the Treasurer's report is due also, and I will have an updated inventory list at that time too, assets, etc.
(Roger) Hello Jurian
(Jurian) hello
(Brent) The board meeting has a guest: welcome Jurian
(Jurian) just watching, ignore me :p
(NancyL) Brent, I have no further input other than the points I made earlier: in the SOHO, Moon reflecting a light other than the Sun, massive number of photos from around the world, now showing moons of Px as well as the second sun, etc.
(NancyL) Hi, Jurian :-)
(Jurian) hi :)
(Brent) OK, Jurian, and welcome!
(Jurian) tnx :)
(Brent) OK, thanks Nancy!
(Stan) Nancy, Are you anticipating without certainty that the PS will happen before the end of July, or is this just the end of Troubled Times
(NancyL) I anticiate rotation slowing, personally, given the 3rd Magnet (Atlantic Rift) having the Siberian Isl in a dither, within days, frankly.
(Jan) All the grand projects ended when Ron left, and we have lately been concentrating on the booklet, getting the word out. After the White Lie, our credibility is rather low, until a potential rotation stop, when it will be too late to do anything anyhow (with respect to the non-profit, that is)

[There have been no projects since Ron left and those that are still running were set up by him and let's see, what was it that happened to Ron? Oh yes once he was no longer of any use Nancy and the Zetas tried to destroy him. Some TT-Inc.]

(NancyL) This is in the Global Quakes section for June 8, 2003. Taken from the USGS Live Seismo data.
(Mary) Jan, you missed the discussion, we are staying in "business" to continue sending out the booklets and to take us to the end of the accounting period.
(Roger) Jan, our credibility is NOT dependent on Nancy or the Zetas.
(NancyL) Jan, I'm on the air waves almost daily, explaining to people how they CAN survive, and pointing to the nonprofit downloadable Adobe Reader PDF, so I personally am not ready to desert 6 billion people in need just because of a personal sense of discomfort.

[God does this woman ever shut up. The same crap time and time again.]

(Roger) Troubled times are occurring now, today, not just in May of 2003.
(Mary) Roger, how true.
(Jan) Roger, the only running copy of the TT site is on the ZT server. The countdown has now been removed, but did recently show a 0 value, then a -1 value.
(Stan) How about the Calfornia quake occuring before the PS. It hasn't happend. Can this be used as way to guage how long it will be
(Jan) Even though the bylaws don't directly state May 2003, we have been very closly linked to that date and have had in on the Hub for many years
(Roger) So there wasn't a pole shift last month, who cares! Our message is one of survival of global catastrophy, not a pole shift in May or June or July.
(NancyL) Stan, my understanding from folklore (Velikovsky) is that all the biggies happen during rotation stoppage, that week.
(Jan) The California quake is said to be during the week of the stoppage, so that's a rather late sign to look for.
(NancyL) Jan, once again, the HUB is a Troubled Times entity NOT a nonprofit entity.

[No its yours Nancy, which is both Zetatalk and Troubled Times. Else why all the tt-inc hierarchy set up as moderators on the tt-groups.]
(Roger) Point of question then, is the Hub or the whole of the Troubled Times website a possession of the corporation?
(Roger) Sorry, my question comes after the answer!
(NancyL) Troubled Times the groups whose membership can come and go at will, Troubled Times the huge web site of contributions (Energy, Food, etc) which was in place before the nonprofit was started.
(Jan) Nancy, please refrain from making this personal. This has nothing to do with my confort level.

[Is Nancy giving you a hard time Jan? Might be because you denounced her in public and on sci-astro. Shame, now you know how it feels. Not nice is it?]

 
(NancyL) The nonprofit only owns, controls, that portion of the web site under the directory /nonproft/
(NancyL) NOT the massive Troubled Times linked to by the Hub, NOT the Hub, NOT the mailing lists except tt-inc, not even the seed team members though the nonprofit supports their efforts.
(NancyL) If the nonprofit choses to dissolve or change focus, this will NOT affect the Troubled Times web sites, Hub, etc whatsoever.
(Jan) Leading up to the Great White Lie, there has been many missed predictions like the Iraqi war which would not succeed, and claims that PX has been imaged when it has been hot pixels only. There may be a good reason behind all this, as pointed out with the government actions in US & Indonesia.

[Ouch, return serve by Jan. Anyone keeping score?]

(Brent) Yes, as stated in previous emails, the nonprofit is ONLY a corporation for education, and dissemination of survival knowledge and information. We distribute the boklet, grow and distribute seeds.

[That's it, Brent to the rescue, like the good little boy he is.]

(NancyL) Jan, please refrain from making this personal :-)
(Roger) Jan, do you want to discontinue your association with the whole of Troubled Times, including the separate entity known as Troubled Times, Inc.? You seem to have missed the dividing lines.
(Jan) I see no reason to continue the embarassment.
(Roger) What embarassment? Your embarassment?

[Double ouch, now that's got to be a definite reference to Jan's apology on sci-astro.]

(Mary) I'm not embarassed. I think the TT Inc. booklet is excellent.
(Jan) As for downloadable info, there should be no problem letting ZetaTalk still host the TT booklet, and the Safe Locations document belongs to ZetaTalk anyhow. What else is needed, Nancy?
(NancyL) I'm not embarrassed, I think the booklet is our crowing glory and I can't tell you how many people treasure it!
(Roger) I agree with Mary. I have four cases of seeds that don't embarass me either!
(NancyL) I mailed out over 100 Seed Packets, and the letters I got in gratitude would touch your heart!
(NancyL) These people were encouraged to THINK about survival, what it will take, by our example and offerings.
(Roger) The nonprofit did not suggest that the reading take cover in May. Read the booklet again!
(NancyL) ZetaTalk is hosting a mirror site of the nonprofit, just as Zetatalk itself is hosted as a mirror site by nepanewsletter and darkinsights
(Brent) Helena: I'm not embarrasses either! I've learned a hell of a lot!
(Mary) So let's continue on and meet next month!
(Mary) (maybe)!!!!
(Stan) I think Jan maybe feeling frustration more than embarrassement. I know I've been frustrated
(Brent) (I'm not either) There has been much learned, and worked for over the last several years, I'm not ashamed of any of it! In other words, I was NOT "hedging my bets" just in case! Major earth changes are still rising, the zetas ARE there, and the governments of the world are doing some strange things!

[Yes Brent has learned how big a head he really has.]

(NancyL) Stan, your sense of frustration is shared by all.
(Roger) In the meantime, should we consider hiring an attorney to find out our options as to the disposition of assests should we decide to end our charter?
(Mary) Yes, Stan, frustration is a good word. I feel that way too. My Blood pressure is high and the waiting is making it climb higher. Gotta pack lots of meds to take care of that after the PS :-(
(NancyL) Brent, to say nothing of those Global Quakes that seem to occur JUST when the Alantic Rift is at certain key positions.
(NancyL) Roger, I suggest we wait until we have a decision end of July, etc.
(NancyL) Roger, also, an attorney is not needed! We didn't need one for incorporation either. IRS guidlines are there, aplenty.

[No attorney's cost money and Nancy has none, right? Not that she'll even consider the option, not until it comes up and bites her on the arse.]

(Brent) Yes Roger, lets wait.
(Roger) Fair enough.
(NancyL) Bottom line, our assets should go to other nonprofits! So, if you want to do anything before July, look around in Kansas for a good nonprofit for the tiller to go to, etc.
(Roger) It will be necessary to change the by-laws at that time if we continue so an attorney would be a good place to start that process.
(NancyL) Roger, we also formulated the Bylaws without an attorney too!
(NancyL) I think checking with the IRS as to dissolution forms, rules, would be a good place to start. No doubt they and Delaware have forms.
(Brent) Roger, we can change the bylaws as a board, and just vote - then change them on the website.
(Roger) And a good job of it too. There is an implication on the watch list (and from Jan) that there may be some liability. I'm just thinking that we may want to have a legal opinion.
(NancyL) Brent, my understanding is that any Bylaw change that affects members RIGHTS must get a membership vote, otherwise not.
(Roger) The disolution of the corporation would be such a change.
(NancyL) Roger, there is no liability. Idle threats. Has anyone been served with papers? No, and frankly if this were the case, dissolution would not change the outcome.
(Roger) I agree, Nancy, but the threats are there and a conversation with an attorney can bring peace of mind.
(Brent) True - Idle threats, with no legal basis.
(NancyL) The weatherman does not get sued. The Nonprofit has only provided guidance on what to DO, in case, and had NO control over others which is a prime requirement.

[Hey up, here it is the exact same twoddle from the Gentile show. Nancy must think she's the weather woman. So what's the forecast for July? Over to you Nancy.]

(NancyL) If you state that you think it will be a wet year, and a drought ensues, your neighbor cannot sue you if he plants in anticipation of rain.
(NancyL) If you manage his fields, and plant, THEN he might could sue you!
(Jan) Sorry about that - I have now connected via another ISP.
(Jan) I assume the meeting is adjourned?
(NancyL) No lawyer would take the lawsuit, and if one did for no $$ then we could countersue as a nuisance, dismissal is immediate.

[Don't count on it Nancy as the directorship can be held accountable as a whole, not just the separate Ms Lieder entity on her own. Making each and everyone of you personally accountable. (Oh I really do hope so.)]

 
(NancyL) They have no CAUSE, in short.
(NancyL) I move we adjourn, yes.
(Mary) Yes, adjourn and Nancy, thanks...........
(Brent) OK, meeting is now adjourned ITs 4 minutes after the hour.

Session Close: Sun Jun 08 14:04:57 2003

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