|
|
"However, as the ZetaTalk credibility is now down the drain, there is no
point is continuing any debate on any such issues."
Jan Rypdal
With
no slowdown on rotation the groups are beginning to show the stress.
Reports of delayed sunset/sunrises coming in from all over the place as
imaginations run amok, but nothing anyone could verify.
TT-Watch
From:
"gtrobaugh" <samsara2003@e...>
Date:
Thu May 22, 2003 4:46 am
Subject:
No slowdown detectable
With all of the posts claiming a slowdown, I would hereby like to say
that I have personally witnessed a near perfect sunrise in my local
here in Wisconsin. I have a perfect view to the horizion as I live
on the west coast of Lake Michigan. Actually, it seemed to be about 5
minutes early (top of the sun emerged at 5:18) instead of 5:23
(according to http://aa.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/aa_pap.pl). Early if
you go by the strict sunrise definitions of the USNO:
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/RST_defs.html#top
Whoever is saying that sunrise is 15,30,60 minutes late here or there
is posting disinformation as it is contrary to the observations that
I have made personally.
In my opinion there are some games being played here by a number of
different factions on both sides of the fence.
Let's just wait and see how this plays out, though I firmly believe
at this point that this earthchanges are very close, though may not
conform to the exact predictions made PUBLICALLY by the Zeta for
reasons we have yet to find out.
Poleshift on the 27 doesn't seem likely based on the fact that there
is NO visibility of the 12th planet and there is NO rotation slowing
that I have personally been able to discern. What does this all mean?
I think it's MUCH too early to draw any conclusions as of yet.
Regards,
Samsara
------o------
From:
"John Frick" <byrd65@h...>
Date:
Thu May 22, 2003 5:13 am
Subject:
Re: No slowdown detectable
Why does everyone think that a pole shift has to hinge on the
appearance of PX or rotation stoppage?
Pole shifts have been scientifically proven to occur many times in
Earth's history. PX may or may not exist, and is certainly unproven,
and it is incredibly unlikey that rotation stoppage has or ever will
occur.
I hold out the possibility that a non-catastrophic pole shift may
occur on May 27 as predicted. It would certainly be interesting.
------o------
From:
REGINA FINDLAY <regfindnow@y...>
Date:
Thu May 22, 2003 11:51 pm
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Re: No slowdown
There are lots of theories and they are just that - theories. You can
findbooks and "schools" supporting different theories until your head is
spinning. Remember when we were taught that the atom was the smallest particle of
matter? There are different schools of thought - one group calls the others'
science bad - the other group says the others are deceiving themselves by
ignoring evidence. It's up to the individual to make up their mind what to
believe. Why should it even matter to anyone else if I believe the earth is flat?
You'll find out the truth eventually, but maybe not on this planet.
Believing the Ztalk or not is no determination whether one is STS or STO.
Be careful you're not just looking for someone to blame. God will sort us
out.
When was Ztalk ever a reliable source? We're talking about "aliens"
here, which officials say don't exist and lots of the population agrees. Personally,
I have never seen an alien, but there are all these crop circles - yeah, yeah,
I know made by kids with radioactive strings and sticks. Shut up.............
The bank thing made me think. Things aren't exactly "normal" though are
they? Interestingly, I get a security alert when I write this. See if it
sends.
------o------
From:
"gtrobaugh" <samsara2003@e...>
Date:
Thu May 22, 2003 8:28 am
Subject:
True agenda revealed - My conjecture
Conjecture: 12th planet approach an invention by the new MJ-12 & the
Zeta
I think we can all be reasonably certain at this point that there is
no planet at the coordinates provided by the Zeta. So is it all just
a hoax then? I highly doubt it. The validity of Zeta channel is
without question in so many different areas and correlating so well
with reality that I believe it to be certain that we are dealing with
a positively oriented group. So what happens now that there is no
planet where they say there is, yet we know it's a valid channel and
we know the weather changes are real. An apparent paradox that has
caused many, myself included, to become completely perplexed. Well, I
have a sort of knack for being able to think "outside the box" and
here is what I think.
Let's start with two very reasonable premises:
1. Zetatalk is a valid channel by ET's of positive polarity.
2. They are bound by agreements and treaties both cosmic and
terrestrial NOT to reveal the coordinates of the incoming 12th
planet. Why would this be? - because providing real coordinates would
violate the element of doubt, as it would be easily identifiable on
the images.
So if YOU were a Zeta and wanted to warn the world population of an
incoming planet yet were bound by these conditions, what would you
do? You could either come out and admit that you cannot reveal the
coordinates for the real reasons or you would have to invent a
fictitious approach and convince the readership of it. The Zeta
deciding that this would not be convincing enough and not able to
give exact coordinates had to resort to a ploy to convince the
population of a real approach. But The Zeta needed help convincing
not just the zetatalk readership, but most importantly to convince
NANCY so they enlisted help by calling upon allied sources within the
new MJ-12 to help out. So in come MJ-12 employees J. William, Havas,
and Naji. The new MJ-12 in collaboration with the Zeta also assisted
in emailing Nancy from various places around the world to create the
illusion that this planet was in fact being spotted. Sources who
helped substantiate the fact that there
was something coming in -
again - to convince Nancy and the populace that there was good reason
to prepare, which there IS. Didn't you ever wonder WHY more
astronomers didn't pick up on the images? It was BECAUSE the imaging
was deliberately bogus. Why would Nancy be kept in the dark? Because
the front person needs to be convincing and is MOST convincing if she
believes what she is saying! What I am saying is that the ENTIRE
approach of the 12th planet within the eight-year testimony of Zetatalk was INVENTED! The coordinates are not of the REAL 12th
planet now quickly coming in from somewhere else.
But if this is the case, than how did Nancy HERSELF see it if it
really wasn't at those coordinates? Three possibilities, all
plausible:
1. The Zetas were able to create the illusion of it being there by
artificial means when Nancy was looking or able to instill the belief
Nancy had seen it in her own mind via artificial means.
2. Nancy did NOT see it, but upon private consultation with the Zeta,
the Zeta urged her to go ahead and say that she did anyway as it
would be disruptive to the message.
3. Nancy was able to convince herself that she saw it even though she
did not.
Remember all the wild claims of seeing the 12th throughout the month
of March & April? Most seemed spurious and unconvincing and came from
anyone and everyone EXCEPT those such as myself, Jeremy, Queenvee,
and the other honest and dedicated folks who were truly looking for
it.
"From my surf of the internet it would appear we are getting more and
more reported sightings. Some from South America and middle of USA. I
have also had some at chat indicate they are seeing anomalies at
coordinates." -JWilliam (Mj-12)
"Fantastic! Unbelievable! Heavenly! We see the same red object in
Cordoba (Argentine) below the Aldebaran star! Man! This is Huge! And
is already scaring my whole family here! Now I realize why we are at
war!"
"Got a great look at our target last night with the 10" scope. The
clouds and rain were very cooperative with holes in clouds opening up
in just the right spots. Last night it did have a tail."
The VAST majority of the claims coming in during the March and April
time frame were not coming from real people - but rather from MJ-12
employees
who were cooperating with the Zeta, unbeknownst to Nancy!
This was to further substantiate the idea in Nancy's mind & the
public that there was reason to prepare, which there is.
No wonder many of us who truly did look for it couldn't't find it. :)
J William Dell, Steve Havas, and Naji work for the new MJ-12 and are
cooperating with STO Zetas. The plan was to have the zeta give the
wrong coordinates from the beginning. Not to mislead the population,
but because giving the REAL coordinates would have violated the
element of doubt. From the beginning, the Zeta had to create the
illusion that the 12th planet (which is, in fact there, just far
enough away from those coordinates not to be noticed by those looking
in that vicinity). This is also, likely, part of the reason that Zeta
wanted to give the impression that it was going to get daytime visible 7 weeks out.
Hazelwood and Mccaney, in this respect, are only half-right. They see
the Zeta coordinates and CCD imaging as invalid (which they always
HAVE been) and thus consider the entire Zetatalk work a NASA con-job,
which it is not - it is a genuine channel in cooperation with a STO
faction of MJ-12 that is providing truthful information in a round-about way, for the reasons outlined in this conjecture. The zeta
message is true, except when it comes to
various specifics about the
approach, location, and timeframe of the 12ht's passage through the
planetary zone.
Now, as the time approached it became more and more difficult for the
Zeta & MJ-12 to convince the population as well as Nancy (who is in
the dark on all of this, as she is the front person who must seem
convincing to the population) that there was a planet AT the given
false coordinates. Then there's the infamous KID-A pic . On the
surface, this whole affair may have seemed like just some clown
looking for attention or a debunker looking to create a fake. It was
neither of these. The faked KID-A pic was created by the same hand of
STO faction of MJ-12 and was COOPERATING with the Zeta, unbeknownst
to Nancy!
This pic had two purposes:
1. The plan was to present a picture that Nancy would accept then
later admit it a fake – placating the STS faction of the elite. This
was carried carried out.
2. To AT THE SAME TIME use as convincing evidence of a planet at this
location for those who might still be on board. Placating the STO
crowd
anxiously looking for data to help get them through their
denial and make preparations. It served BOTH purposes. The admission
of it being a fake only came weeks later. Yet this was NEVER
acknowledged by either Nancy OR the Zeta. Even the Zeta stated on May
18th chat (http://www.zetatalk.com/index/cmay1803.htm)
"ZT: Thus, such slips as allowing a SOHO to reel to the public,
actually showing Planet X as it appeared in the NC Double Helix
photo, were not by design by oversight."
This alludes to the fact that they considered the NC photo to be
legit when it is not - a contradiction that is explainable only by
this theory.
In fact, every single pic that has been taken of the 12th planet -
both on CCD's and visual images is fake and just such an invention. A
genuine image of the real incoming planet would NEVER be allowed in
public distribution nor would the Zetas be allowed to assist in
making such a public distribution possible – The Zeta were of course
NOT able to discuss this.
Now the final end-game is now going to be played out. Exactly what
that end-game is going to be, we cannot know exactly - but if this
conjecture is
correct then this is what may be what is about to occur:
The day of May 27th will come and go without incident and the true
STS debunkers will stand up and cheer thinking the world safe.
Perhaps the Zeta will come out and announce the REAL date ONLY when
credibility of it's channel is down – in order to maximize the level
of obfuscation to placate the council's rules. Nancy will be told by
the Zeta to keep quiet and not to say anything just yet. It could be
believed that it would be against the rules (due to both cosmic and
terrestrial agreements) for the Zeta to have given humanity the very
date of the poleshift. The real date has not been announced.
The purpose of Zetatalk has been:
To inform the populace to the degree that does not violate the law of
confusion nor infringe on any cosmic or terrestrial treaty TRUE
information regarding the Hybrid program, Earth transformation,
Poleshift, and the awakening.
Within the limited confines of this arrangement, the Zeta were forced
to
engage in a great deal of deception, considering the ends
justifying the means in this case. The exact date of the poleshift
and the visibility of the 12th planet was HIGHLY, HIGHLY restricted
and the information disseminated had to fall through many layers of
disinformation without misleading the population.
Creating the illusion of an approaching planet is not at all easy and
a double edged sword. On the plus-side it gives those in control of
the illusion ability to be in control. They can dictate its motion
and limit its visibility. On the minus side, the ploy becomes
increasingly obvious as the approach nears.
If you doubt this conjecture, then SHOW me WHERE the 12th planet is
in the sky. It's JUST NOT THERE! This is even MORE apparent in the
statements the Zeta themselves make about the noon sun and 2nd sun
appearing ON SCHEDULE - NONE of which have been shown to be legit and
all camera artifacts of somekind or another. This isn't to say that
everyone who has claimed to see it or posted a pic works for MJ-12
(quite the contrary). Yet many of the new Mj-12 employee's such as
JWD or HAVAS (who are on the good side with the Zeta) keep trying to
convince Nancy and the readership that it is, as they have been
instructed to keep the illusion of the approach believable as long as
possible until the 27th.
So what now? What happens on the 27th if this approach has just been
an illusion? Where is the REAL 12th planet (not the invented one) and
WHEN is it going to arrive. Based on all the spiritual indicators
that we are being given, soon. Very soon. And despite the roundabout
way of getting the message to us, the Zeta succeeded and those who
listened will be better prepared for the times that lie ahead.
This is my take on this issue. Only time will tell what will
materialize.
Visit the LATEST EMAILS from Nancy Lieder & the Zetas to see where
this great escapade goes next!
Love & light,
Samsara
samsara2003@h...
http://www.samsara2003.com
------o------
From:
"texasfam2003" <tammye11@h...>
Date:
Thu May 22, 2003 10:01 am
Subject:
Re: True agenda revealed - My conjecture
Yes I agree with this. I can't say exactly how I know but a bending
light illusion is my opinion on the pics and even the actual
physical sighting Nancy has said she had and I believe she did see
this. I believe the Zetans could have easily created such an
illusion for the reason of being not able to interferre directly and
tell the exact time or coodinates. This is pretty close to what I
see and have gathered from the ZT website. Whatever the reasons are
they are doing this because this is the only way they can because
yes their is a PoleShift coming and yes the world elite are trying
to take advantage of this situation. The entire site is filled with
such references as to their involvement with MJ-12 and for them to
state this over and over they must have a pretty close and tight
relationship with the new MJ-12. In the site Nancy even said that
the new faction of MJ-12 has many times altered and reviewed the
answers she gives to people. For this to be done however the Zetans
would not only except but agree to such alterations. I believe
nancy is well aware of their intentions but as you said she wasn't
told until the last minute. If others have to be aware of this then
surely they let it be known to her first. The other possibilty
being that she had known all along and that she agreed to this in
what she calls the pre-birth agreement. They just popped in one day
and said something like "here is the plan you said you would help
with and by the way these people are going to help you do this. (MJ-12) My view or review of this has made me believe from past
personal experiences that the elite have a much bigger agenda in
their plans. That they really believe they can and will take the
world over and with such great council of the STS faction who are
masters of this area why wouldn't they believe them , especially
being greedy, selfish, and plainly bad to the bone. What sts human
isn't going to listen and say "Heyyyy now your talking, I want to
rule the world and if everyone has to die to let someone like me
take over then so be it!" Of course the zetans know this and this
of course is not to be allowed either! thus then you have a slight
or huge war among the STO and the STS without either really being
able to throw a punch . What does everyone think the STS Visitors is
counciling them on? How to lay down and be a nice little STS
human? I don't think so! They both contact their humans and the
humans are the one ones that can basically throw whatever they want
at eachother .. I can see this as being a very complicated agenda
and the less we know right now is probably the best thing for us.
Whatever is going on were getting closer! The pole shift is getting
closer but not without them doing the best they can do before it
happens. (Zetans) and all other sto factions out there. Oh and I
never have claimed to have seen planetx once either. I never have
seen it although I have seen red skies in Texas. Now I cannot
explain that but see the strangeness of this is that it was at 3:30
in the morning 3 nights in a row. Not coming from the sun and not
coming from the moon. It was blood red coming from no apparant
light source. My whole family saw this as I woke them for them to
see so I am not a wishful want to be seeing planetx. In fact I hope
that it is not time for this event but I also agree the world is not
going to continue on it's present course. the weather, and
geological changes proves that. thanks for your conjecture
------o------
From:
"Jan" <anybody@a...>
Date:
Thu May 22, 2003 12:12 pm
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] True agenda revealed - My conjecture
Samsamara wrote:
But The Zeta needed help convincing not just the zetatalk readership, but most importantly to convince NANCY so they enlisted help by calling upon allied sources within the new MJ-12 to help out. So in come MJ-12 employees J. William, Havas, and Naji.<
I highly doubt this. I believe they have been duped, just as Nancy.
After the analysis of the first images, when I realized that my Planet X
candidate only appeared on one image and was a hot pixel, I was given an incorrect
answer that it was indeed a valid image of Planet X.
Since everybody on the team have been new to astrophoto and image
stacking, analysis etc., I believe they were convinced by the Zeta confirmations.
I did however note some more doubts from the team as time passed and
imaging did not become any more convincing. Btw, I noted today on sci.astro that
J.William Dell made an official apology, which he ends:
"Many have taken positions in this debate,
and tempers were raised at times.
To those I have offended, I sincerely apologize.
And from this experience, emerge a wiser man."
<snip>
> What I am saying is that the ENTIRE approach of the 12th planet
within the eight-year testimony of Zetatalk was INVENTED! The coordinates are not of the REAL 12th planet now quickly coming in from somewhere else.<
Which I believe is exactly what James McCanney has claimed.
Where we do agree, is that this may not be over yet. There are parts of
the ZetaTalk information that can't just be dismissed even if the prediction
for the pole shift has shown to be incorrect.
However, as the ZetaTalk credibility is now down the drain, there is no
point is continuing any debate on any such issues.
[You'll note Jan doesn't see
the point of continuing this debate. His opinion.]
I think we all now should return to our normal day-to-day activities. If
indeed Planet X should be approaching from somewhere else, then I
believe that
- the amateur astronomers will find it and image it, and that
- we will recognize the signs of a pole shift, should it occur at any
point in the future.
Regards,
Jan
------o------
From:
"sts060" <sts060@y...>
Date:
Thu May 22, 2003 1:39 pm
Subject:
Re: True agenda revealed - My conjecture
There actually is a simple and plausible explanation that I believe
you have not considered: That Ms. Lieder was mistaken, that there are
no Zetas, no Council of Worlds, etc. That the trends you identified
are due to unfamiliarity with the relevant areas of meteorology,
geology, and climatology. That there is no group of aliens trying to
warn us of anything in particular. (For the record, I do believe in
sentient life elsewhere in the Universe. The evidence for them having
visited us is unconvincing, however).
I'm not trying to demean anyone here. I just think that you are
overlooking the simplest explanation. Much of Zetatalk has obviously
resonated with you, but I think that speaks more of your
dissatisfaction with the state of the world rather than its predictive
accuracy, which is close to zero. [In particular, its content related
to astronomy or the space program is not even close to accurate.
That's the part on which I'm qualified to offer an opinion, as an
aerospace engineer and amateur astronomer.]
Anyway, my $0.02. Happy continued Earth rotations!
------o------
From: "drjreed2002" <drjwreed@e...>
Date: Thu May 22, 2003 1:01 pm
Subject: Re: True agenda revealed - My conjecture
To all on TT-Watch.....
[Moderator's note: Parts of this message deleted.]
[Note this post has been edited.]
The future is ours to make. No aliens or supernatural presence can
help us determine it and cant help us meet it. We are here in this
world at this time, and we need to worry about it, rather than worry
about imaginary disasters..... true STO means helping people in this
world....helping the poor and homeless, for example...or working to
make our communities a better place, out in the real world, not in
this virtual world where anything, and nothing, can happen.
So, its time to start working in the real world. Its the only one we
have, and it will be here for a long, long time to come.....
------o------
From:
Kimmo Seppänen <kimmo.seppanen@w...>
Date:
Thu May 22, 2003 12:25 pm
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Re: True agenda revealed - My conjecture
One can endlessly make new aprroaches to this issue. Still in my opinion
(and
it seems that it is only my opinion) if there is rather big audience
involved; makeing a lie only makes more stress reactions that I´m sure most of us
have.
It´s like saying "you will die tomorrow" and when you don´t; say "sorry
it was a white lie". Now as a nurse I rather feel that it would not be very
entertaining in my work saying things like that. Why do we accept things
rom
the so called aliens that are not by all means acceptable from our
neighbours? Blown up shuttle did not make us feel that now we must be at war to
aliens, like WTC made people think they are at war to terrorism. Illogical. Why
to blow up shuttle when it would have been so easy to make it malfunction before
the launch? And why then not to blow russian side too. They do go to
spacestation. Illogical and therefore highly suspiciously "alien" made actions. Where
is the 100% truth if one can lie. What kind of council of worlds is there that
even think of a lie and increase panic; is that all they can do.
[Moderator's note:Parts of this message deleted.]
[Again note the moderators editing.]
K.S from Finland
------o------
From:
"gtrobaugh" <samsara2003@e...>
Date: Thu May 22, 2003 7:13 pm
Subject: My conjecture - thoughts
I have changed my mind about the likelyhood of the conjecture I
posted the other day. I appologize if I offended or angered anyone -
it is only my intention to get to the truth, as it is something that
most of us desperately seek in these days.
At this point I choose only to say that wish the future to bring us
happiness & joy and not death & destruction.
Love & light,
Samsara
------o------
From: Melony <melonycook_uk@y...>
Date:
Thu May 22, 2003 8:59 pm
Subject:
Disinformation!
Thank God it has all proved to be nothing more than 'a
white lie', not that I really expected it to be
otherwise and my heart goes out to anybody who has
allowed themselves to be influenced into changing
their lives in preparation for this non-event. As to
who has perpetrated this disinformation and as to what
their true motives might be, they're questions that
need to be addressed. My main concern is that when
this subject is raised in months to come, it will be
ridiculed and dismissed as being nothing more than a
hoax, NASA and the NWO would appear the be the obvious
beneficiaries. The planet has obviously been subjected
to major upheavals previously and it will be again,
surely nobody can doubt that but as to when....
That a military operation in Iraq should be named
'Planet X' cannot be a mere coincidence, the NWO are
obviously making preparations and are probably working
towards a specific timeframe. The Zetatalk site has proved to be a thought
provoking and fascinating site. I sincerely hope this
newsgroup will continue to function,
Mel UK
------o------
From:
"maxxdevlinn" <maxxdevlinn@y...>
Date:
Thu May 22, 2003 10:45 pm
Subject: A Radical Theory
Most of you know me as Solst part time Ops of whats left of the
ZetaTalk IRC chat rooms. Most of you know I'm pretty skeptical of
this whole thing but I have a Radical Theory most of you are
overlooking. That theory being Nancy Lideder is telling the truth
when she claims that this White Lie was created by the Zeta's as some
sort of way to weed out or clear out the STS's from the STO's.
As I've noticed in the this past week. Many of those that were
considered hardcore Zeta believers suddenly at the very first signs
of failure of posted dates began to change their positon, many jumped
ship even in the very first hours of the 20th and instently joined
the crowds of disbelievers and out right debunkers. In doing so they
showed their true natures, their true colors. That being that all
along they were STS's in lambs clothing. Here's the Radical concept
which are you are you an STS or a STO?? Well with the 'White Lie' (a
fantastic move) the Zeta's are forcing everyone to reveal their true
colors, the wheat is being seperated from the chaff, and the fense
sitters forced to jump down into one side.
Now is the time we get to see what truely lays in the heart and soul
of everyone are you STS or are you STO.
The Christian Bible tells us that in the last days those that do not
believe will be blinded by their arrogence and egos and will not see
that sudden distruction is upon them. They will be blinded to signs
of the Times while the believers vision with will tripled. An when
these signs begin to happen for the believers to run for the
mountians for sudden destructiuon is surely upon them.
The signs of the Times are all about us. Global Warming, Droughts,
famines, Wars and rummors of wars. earth quakes, etc etc one has to
be blind not to see it.
The White Lie is a great even fantastic move on part of the Zetas.
The thrusher has been turned on and now we see what chaff falls from
those gathered.
ust some thoughts
Solst
[Solst, self cofessed
skeptic and QueenVee IRC bully boy.]
------o------
From: jw <jw@w...>
Date: Fri May 23, 2003 12:06 am
Subject: Re: [tt-watch] A Radical Theory
Yes, I like this theory. I have bene observing this human reaction as
well, watching people turn on NL, et al, with incredable hostility and
bitterness. Even some of those who host PX material have turned. I
myself expressed my frustration with this "white lie", feeling like I
had been manipulated, but never ceasing to prepare or believe that if it
wasn't PS it would be something else. This confused me as I have been
having dreams and visions of PX for some time now, and I was beginning
to fear that I was completely delusional. It had been a battle of faith
vs. fact. But tinking about what you have said, maybe it is true, maybe
the 'white lie' is a clever move.
------o------
From:
"watcher20032003" <Watcher@a...>
Date:
Fri May 23, 2003 12:09 am
Subject:
Re: A Radical Theory
So by your theory J W Dell is now STS because he "jumped ship" and
appologised to sci-astro for his error. Or perhaps Jeremy Rogers for
retracting Nancy's poleshift claims on his web site. And what of Jan
who also now questions the pole shift scenario. Perhaps QueenVee too
because Nancy accused her of drawing ridicule for posting her e-mail's on her site.
I seriously doubt you really understand the concept of STO. Most
here have waited years to prove their belief, contributing with the
only purpose of helping others, waiting for that day when they can
come together in a new caring society only to have it destroyed by
yet more "white" lies.
AS you said it's your theory and as Jan said "the ZetaTalk
credibility is now down the drain" and it will take noting sort of a
miracle to change that for a lot of people now. Trust is earned by
means of action, never words and the zetas have shown scant regard
in that department.
"If one is going to tell a fairy tale, one tells it far outrather than with any basis of validation, and in that way validation
is never a challenge or a worry." Nancy Lieder
------o------
From:
"maxxdevlinn" <maxxdevlinn@y...>
Date: Fri May 23, 2003 12:40 am
Subject: Re: A Radical Theory
The act of a good Thrusher is test the worth of the grain. The acti
is violent, it tears away the worth while grain from the husk, the
broken grain, chaff and waste removed from the good grain.
Not all of those that have jumped ship are STS. Many are different
levels of it or influenced and confused greatly by the STS influence.
Yet many clearly are STS for now they turn around and systematically
tear apart those that are STO and those that still hold faith to
Nancy's message.
Everyone loses faith time to time even among the most dye hard
apostles great example in Peter a man that proclaimed he rather die
then lose faith. Before the clock crowed three on that fate full
night he denied even knowing the man Jesus. Some thirty years later
he was cruified upside down for proclaiming the message. Losing faith
during a time of testing is natural to all for we are merely human.
Yet to actively set out now to destory what you have lost faith in.
That is a traite of STS. An those that now do set out to destory the STOs and nancy's suporters, Those are clearly for all to see the
rotten to the core grain that now in the White Lie have been beatten
out of there hidding hole.
------o------
From:
"blah blah" <bandanabarts@y...>
Date: Fri May 23, 2003 2:54 am
Subject: Re: A Radical Theory
Oh wow. Ummm....this is a bit much?.Do you now compare the Zetas with
God? Do you think Jesus would tell lies to discern the chaff among
the wheat? Do you believe that the Zetas, who claim to know what we
think telepathically..would need to tell a lie to discern who
the "true believers" are? If they know what we think, why would they
need to? For our benefit? Be careful, sto person who bandies about
correlations of ZT and the Bible, that you are not deceived into
calling evil good. That's in the Bible that you so freely use
too..look it up. Woe unto he who calls evil good and good evil. Take
care that your values are not perverted by this event that has let so
many people down. I realize how difficult it is for someone who has
invested much of themselves into this scenario, however, deception is never a good thing. And while I myself am quite capable and do indeed
engage in deception from time to time, I am quite aware that it is
wrong and can never ultimately
lead to good, it only leads us to a
worse place, and this is my personal failing. Truth should be our
goal, where is the value in a lie? Any lie? For whatever purpose?
Think long and hard before you choose to condone deception, and
especially to rationalize it to others as laudable. And think longer
and harder before you choose to correlate these events to passages in
the Bible. Seems to me there's a big one in that book that puts the
kabosh on your comparisons..thou shalt not bear false witness. Please
think about your rationale a bit longer. Don't mean to cause trouble,
but it just amazes me that a lie has now become something to applaud.
------o------
From:
jw <jw@w...>
Date:
Fri May 23, 2003 11:27 am
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Re: A Radical Theory
blah blah wrote:
Oh wow. Ummm....this is a bit much?.Do you now compare the Zetas with God? Do you think Jesus would tell lies to discern the chaff among the wheat?<
Well, now that you mention it, somethng like that did happen, both to
Jesus and his followers. Jesus felt forsaken by God, and all but the
apostles lost faith in Jesus. Many people DID claim Jesus was a liar
and a fake. I am not making any comparison here other than the 'plots'
and characters of these stores are similar. (i.e. I am not claiming
nancy is thye new Jesus, or the Zetas are God - no flames please)
Messanger arrives with message of salvation and destruction
gains audience
Shows some special abilities
Becomes a threat to the PTB
Becomes diefied by some and vilified by others
Doubt is cast
People want proof-on-demand
The hero fails in the eyes of the world
Doubt is cast, faith is lost
(this bring us up to now)
Then the real miracle happens
How many real believers did Jesus have when he was hanging on the cross?
He did a lot wackier stuff back then too... like raising the dead and
eeding thousands with only the food for a few. Her certainly flew in
the face os science and reason.
------o------
From:
"blah blah" <bandanabarts@y...>
Date:
Fri May 23, 2003 11:53 am
Subject:
Re: A Radical Theory
You miss the point entirely. The post was about deception and a
rationale being touted to not only accept but to APPLAUD deception.
Well done! Good Job, Zetas!! Would a "little white lie" such as the
whopper that the Zetas told be accepted with such equinamity from
spouses/children/friends? I don't know, but I would hardly think so.
How about from our politicians/leaders?
A lie is a lie is a lie.
I don't know what else to say.
------o------
From:
jw <jw@w...>
Date: Fri May 23, 2003 12:56 pm
Subject: Re: [tt-watch] Re: A Radical Theory
I think is you who missed my point. There are those who feel it is a
lie, and those who still feel it is not a lie. It has come down to an
act of pure faith, with no proof, science, facts, evidence, etc.
Some have chosen the side of faith, and some the side of fact.
> A lie is a lie is a lie.<
I am glad to see that you have been able to unravel one of the greatest
and most complex challanges of human history (and using only three words
at that!): knowing what is truth and what is not. Even Jesus could not
answer that questions when Pilot asked him "What is truth?".
Seriously though, A lie to one can be truth to another. Just ask any
laywer :)
I had a much smaller similar experience. Some months ago I heard a
clear voice tell me that global catastrophy would begin on April 15th.
This freaked me out a bit, and I shared it with only a few people. 4/15
came and went without any obvious event. Ws I lieing? I do not believe
so, for two reasons 1) 'I' was not saying this. I was relaying a
message, (from where I have no idea). My believing it does not make me
a liar. 2) I noticed in my inbox a marked increase in global changes
and disasters, but none that effected out lives directly. I surmised
that the 'wheels' of catastrophy began to move 4/15, and we may not see
the effect immediatly. I do not believe I lied, but others do. The
only time a lie is a lie is a lie, is when someone deliberatly sets out
to tell a lie for no reason other then to lie. That is not the case
here (IMHO), nor is it most of the time.
------o------
From: "blah blah" <bandanabarts@y...>
Date:
Fri May 23, 2003 1:59 pm
Subject:
Re: A Radical Theory
Dude, it was a lie. Rotation will stop on this day. Point blank, no
room for misunderstanding.
This belief structure has already been proven false. Regardless if a
poleshift should occur on the 27th, the Zetas HAVE LIED TO YOU. Is
this what you want, beings who lie to you?
You made a comparison to Jesus in your last post. Show me in any
scripture of extrabiblical writing where Jesus told a lie.
Notwithstanding our inability to ascertain the truth of the Bible,
there is no incident cited where Jesus lied. You made the comparison
that people made claims about Jesus..this is not the same thing as
Jesus making false claims, and it is not a valid comparison to what
has occured with the Zeta claims.
Those who feel they are engaging in faith are not. This is not faith,
it is willful self deception.
> I am glad to see that you have been able to unravel one of the
greatest and most complex challanges of human history (and using only three
words at that!): knowing what is truth and what is not. Even Jesus
could not answer that questions when Pilot asked him "What is truth?". Seriously though, A lie to one can be truth to another. Just ask
any laywer :)<
You are making an assumption here. Jesus did not answer Pilot. We
cannot assume that he could not answer. But in any event, truth is
truth. If something is proven to be false, it cannot in any way be
considered to be truth, regardless of a believer's desire for it to
be so. If we are to know truth at all, we must not blur lines. Rotation stoppage did not occur. It was not truth. Period.
> I had a much smaller similar experience. Some months ago I heard a clear voice tell me that global catastrophy would begin on April
15th. This freaked me out a bit, and I shared it with only a few people.
4/15 came and went without any obvious event. Ws I lieing? I do not
believe so, for two reasons 1) 'I' was not saying this. I was relaying a message, (from where I have no idea). My believing it does not
make me a liar. 2) I noticed in my inbox a marked increase in global
changes and disasters, but none that effected out lives directly. I
surmised that the 'wheels' of catastrophy began to move 4/15, and we may not
see the effect immediatly. I do not believe I lied, but others do.
The only time a lie is a lie is a lie, is when someone deliberatly sets
out to tell a lie for no reason other then to lie. That is not the
case here (IMHO), nor is it most of the time.<
Your experience is not relevant to the rotation issue. You relayed a
message given to you. Nancy relayed a message given her by the Zetas.
For this discussion, let us assume that the Zetas do exist as stated
and have been giving Nancy information. The Zetas are the originators
of their message, and they lied to us. They claimed to observe px,
they claimed expertise in measuring it's approach, etc., they claimed
to be able to know the exact day of rotation stoppage based on past
experience since they have observed the passage before. Now,
somewhere in all of this, there is a deliberate lie. Either they did
not observe a planet, they are unable to measure it's approach, or
they have no ability to ascertain a date that the passage would
affect earth. Either way, there was a lie told.
I'm not sure I understand your logic in the statement "a lie is a lie
is a lie only when someone deliberately sets out to tell a lie for no
other reason than to lie". Please clarify your statement. Are you
saying that if someone tells a lie for what they believe to be a good
purpose, that they are telling a lie for another reason than to just
lie, and that this is somehow more excusable? I truly don't
understand what you're saying here. If someone tells me something
that they believe to be true, and it is not, I would not count it as
a lie, but an error on their part. However, if they know that what
they are saying is untrue, regardless of their intentions, it is
still a lie. There is no gray area here. Either one speaks truth as
far as they know it to be, or one does not. And if one does not, it
is a lie. And somewhere in the Zeta message, at least one deliberate
lie has been told.
------o------
From: "watcher20032003" <Watcher@a...>
Date: Fri May 23, 2003 5:44 pm
Subject:
Re: A Radical Theory
--- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, jw <jw@w...> wrote:
As for people waiting to be STO, that is BS. If you;re STO,
you're STO<
Unless you're undecided waiting for the right path, or an STO stuck
out on your own, isolated waiting for a poleshift so you can be
drawn to others of your kind. Perhaps an STO stuck within an STS
environment trying to survive in present reality. I could go on but
there are many possible reasons why an STO or undecided might be
waiting to fore fill their chosen path. Which is probably my fault
as I was trying to be brief. (Oh and I was not referring to myself
either by the way.)
> with or without PX or global disaster. If this "white lie' ruins
STO efforts, they weren't too committed.<
So those who have already left for their designated safe locations,
perhaps now isolated with their limited supplies, and let's not
forget by Nancy's predicted date May 15th, totally unaware of the
saga so far, or the Zeta "white lie," waiting on slowing rotation
and px, are not having their efforts ruined? (Regardless of STS/STO)Again there are other scenario's but you catch my drift. (And yes I
do know certain people in this position, whom I cannot contact to
inform of current events. They'll probably wait it out then come
back when they decide there's no px.)
Harping back to the bible - If Moses had banded various dates,
promising signs with eventual exodus only to let them down on each
successive occasion, time and time again, claiming God had told him
white lies, how long or how many do you really think would have
eventually left Egypt, or even bothered listening to Moses when that
final day did arise? (Remember the boy who cried wolf.)
For a superior intellect the Zetas show very little logic, either
that or they just don't understand humans. Trust is paramount,
especially this day and age where everyone, and I do mean nearly
everyone is trying to deceive us. Politicians, scam artists,
debunkers, people we don't know and people we do. Especially when
they, the Zetas tell us not to trust the words of others, yet then
go and admit to having both deceived and lied to us. (White, red,
blue or green makes no difference if you are of the opinion that a
lie is a lie.)
>Jeesh, all you have to look around to see where you can start STO-ing.<
STO-ing wasn't invented by Nancy she just coined the phrase and
frankly I was helping others long before she ever entered the scene
and not through choice but because destiny/fate/kismet whatever you
choose to call it had already predetermined that course. (Oh and
before you come back, that does not mean I didn't want to do it
either. I could explain further but won't.)
To brand or claim anyone is one thing or another simply because they
do not share the same ideals or belief is quite frankly hypocrisy at
its best and pretty much a joke. As in doing so they display the
same traits as those they have just accused. (And yes I do realise
it was not you who wrote the original post, but then my reply was to
that specific entry.)
I've sat in on the IRC and sci-astro listening to both sides, just
as happens here form time to time. The debunkers in one corner and
the believers in
another each defending their respective side. But
after a while you start to realise there is no real difference
between the two. Each as determined to prove the other wrong, each
so secure in their own righteous myopic opinion, caring little for
any opposing viewpoint, predetermining anything else outside their
own reality framework and therefore moot. Pretty soon all you hear
are the loudest voices and the more domineering personalities as
they lord it up over the rest of the caterwauling racket. So most of
the time it is these that everyone ends up listening to, not because
they are right or just, but because their egos and self opinionated
prejudices has removed all lesser determined opposition.
Basically we can all "believe" we are STO, after all its just a
phrase, (and let's face it we can convince ourselves of almost
anything.) However it does not instantly transform us into supreme
beings of light and good just because we believe such things. It
simply means for that time, while it is dominant, we are convinced
we are. True STO would therefore take no effort at all while those
determined to deceive others or themselves would have to work a
hundred times harder to maintain that immaculate facade. (But then
another thing I've noticed is those proclaiming themselves loudly to
be true STO are usually the same ones quick to denounce others as
STS or undecided. Although I'm no expert just working with the
available information thus far.)
> If you're listening to Zetas in the first place, you running on
faith, and true faith does not demand miracles.<
You're making assumptions, as I do not listen to any Zeta. In fact
as far as I'm aware no one here as ever heard one either, Nancy yes,
Zetas no, besides they are supposed to use telepathy which has also
proved unreliable for various reasons so far. However I can honestly
say I have no faith in anything, neither alien or human, except
perhaps myself, although even that is strained at times. Of Nancy
and the Zetas I have neither asked nor demanded anything as my
guidance and confirmation comes from elsewhere, once again a source
over which no one person or entity has control. Although I can say
it is incapable of lies or deception as it has no voice to speak,
utilising direct influence and action instead. (Actions speak louder
than words.)
I guess if there was a point to my post it must be that no one can
speak for Nancy. We can all speculate till we are blue in the face
but ultimately only she can answer the questions thus far, after all
she is the "emissary" and sole voice. To claim any prior knowledge,
intuition or even to speculation is quite frankly irresponsible at
the least, dangerous at worst as many many people's life-choices
rest in the balance here and elsewhere awaiting the Zeta word. To
pre-judge or degrade any individual when one neither knows that
individual or the circumstances, commitment or loss that has brought
them here thus far is plainly archaic to say the least.
Ultimately whether planet X turns up or not, today, next week, next
year, whenever/if ever, it makes no difference as our lives reside
in the lap of the Gods, (metaphorically speaking.) It doesn't matter
whether you've a two acre biodome, underground bunker, with a
hundred year supply, trench ditch or hole, President, government
agent, computer expert, taxi driver or street bum, if its your time
to go you will and there's little anyone can do about it. So no
amount of preparation or pre-knowledge is going to guarantee our
continuance, except perhaps for a certain peace of mind. (Nobody
lives forever, unless of course they're immortal in which case they
have my deepest sympathy.)
I'm pretty sure there would be many who could and would survive such
a catastrophe, still able to continue and thrive into any new future
with nothing more than human ingenuity. (Else why have we survived
this long? And if not then the next dominant species will find a
good use for the Earth.)
------o------
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