|
|
"...we've always
allowed a great deal of
argument and
discussions, pros and cons
to go on, encouraged
it, the whole
Troubled Time mailing
list group is one..."
Nancy Lieder
Taking away of all moderation on the lists was a good thing in my
eyes.
Clipper Ordiway
This is a list about Planet X and growing
earth changes news, and if you can't contribute in a positive way, just leave, and save me the trouble
of moderation.
Brent Freemont
[It didn't last long.
Shortly after announcing the tt-groups would be unmoderated the TT-INC
have stepped in to lay down "their" biased and judgemental law.
First to go was "Christer",
Christer M Palmstrom a ghost from TT's past that haunted the groups
disrupting at every opportunity. Banned time and time again he
re-surfaced under many guises returning once more to earn himself yet
another ban. (Admittedly deserved due to considerable abuse and bad
language.)
From: "Clipper
Ordiway" <cannex@m...>
Date:
Sat Jun 28, 2003 3:08 am
Subject:
Posting guidelines and list rules
[Moderator note: Read changes below]
Every once in awhile, I try and post the list rules (what each list is
for) as general guidelines, mostly for the new
members, and since we do have a few new
members, we may as well post them now. And just because I have
posted the list rules for the new members, does not meen to imply
that they are directed at any one person. Just
call it preventive maintenance.
[Note: Christer has been banned by me, not
Jan. For foul language, insults and name
calling that were unnecessary and uncalled for. And because others
complained.]
[This is in
reference to the likes of me in an attempt to let Jan off the hook and
show there are other moderators on the list. However one must ask where
these other moderators have been since the TT-INC takeover and why have
they been so inactive during that time as Jan has been the sole
moderator on all groups, editing and banning which he has admitted in
previous posts.?]
First, the "reason" we have different lists. Years ago, we had only one
list. EVERYTHING went on this one list. It got way out of hand.
Postings of all sorts, all mixed in together.
People were getting posts they didn't want,
things like "Why are you cluttering up my mailbox with this #%^&!"
were being said as some only wanted stuff about survival and not
the gossip of the day. We, as members, decided
to create more than one list so we could
separate the types of postings. All a member would then have to do is
join only the list he/she wanted to be on. It
has worked well, and with the help of others,
we
hardly ever have to enforce any rules. We just let folks know
once in a while. The premise of Troubled Times is to help
ourselves and others prepare before, during
and after the coming pole shift. A few things
we don't discuss on our lists and pages are guns and religion. TT is not
a religious group. Never has been and never
will be. TT also has no pros or cons if you
choose to have a weapon. Your choice. But, on this list we do
not discuss it. There are many groups and individuals who would
like to see TT shut
down thereby preventing the information we are all working hard at, from
getting out. Classifying us as a gun toting religious group would
be one way of attempting to shut us down. We
are not. These are our reasons for not
discussing these topics.
[Note: This was what the premise was for tt-watch (below)]
TT-watch (tt-watch@yahoogroups.com)
Troubled Times Watch - discussion about the topics in The Word section
such as the government, UFO's, weather, news
articles and yes, even a few conspiracy
theories once in a while (until it gets personal). Not for social
chatter, jokes, scientific rantings or ones personal dreams.
[Actually this in itself is
a joke as Clipper did post the occasional "funny" to lighten the mood,
which in itself was a breech of the list rules.]
We are not in the
business of selling our ideas, or "converting" anyone, as these types of
discussions seem to escalate into never ending debates. As time
goes by and more and more members join this
and our other groups, we will have much less
time for tolerance of disruptive members and they will be removed
without lengthy discussions. Those who do not
abide by the list rules will be removed. The
premise of Troubled Times is that cataclysmic changes are
potentially in our future, and that preparation means assuming
the worst of what geological and written
history tell us.
To subscribe by email: mailto:tt-watch-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
To unsubscribe by email: Mailto:tt-watch-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Please, visit http://www.zetatalk.com/thub.htm for more info.
[Note: This is what it is now (below)]
Troubled Times Watch - discussion about the topics in The Word section
such as the government, UFO's, weather, news
articles and yes, even a few conspiracy
theories once in a while (until it gets personal). Not for social
chatter, jokes, scientific rantings or ones personal dreams. We
are not in the business of selling our ideas,
or "converting" anyone, as these types of
discussions seem to escolate into never ending debates. As time goes by
and more and more members join this and our
other groups, we will have much less time for
tolerance of disruptive members and they will be removed without
lengthy discussions. Those who do not abide by the list rules
will be removed. The premise of Troubled Times
is that cataclysmic changes are potentially in
our future, and that preparation means assuming the worst of
what geological and written history tell us. Please, visit
http://www.zetatalk.com/thub.htm for more info.
[You will notice
even after the failed predictions and lack of Planet X they are still
directing traffic to Zetatalk, despite Nancy's claims that the TT-groups
have nothing to do with the INC or Zetatalk.]
[Note: I have added a line to the tt-watch
premise and inserted it. The
line reads:]
", we will have much less time for
tolerance of disruptive members such as those
who cuss and call each other names with insults. They will be removed
without lengthy discussions."
As everyone who has been here for years can tell you, I am the most
lineate of all the moderators on our lists. It
was my list way before it was Jan's. I always
try to be fair, unjudgemental and not critical of others views. I
also do not moderate, I hate moderating. I ban or take away
posting privileges when I have to.
Taking away of all moderation on the lists was a good thing in my
eyes. But, once in a while someone has to step
in as I just did and will do again if need be.
This is not sci.astro and should not be treated as such or we
would all just go over there. My job on this list has not changed
and that is to protect the list for at least
as long as we all feel we need it. PX or no PX,
I still think it is a great list and I will do my part when I can to
keep it that way.
Clipper
Moderator
[Clipper Ordiway, original
moderator, formally head sheriff of the "posse" and all round "good guy" vary
rarely moderated except under extreme circumstances, yet also former
member of the INC.]
------o------
From: "Jan"
<anybody@a...>
Date:
Sat Jun 28, 2003 2:22 pm
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Crop Circles
"DrPostman" wrote:
I think he is trying to test Jan to see how far he can go on this group.
It's Jan's group.<
No, it's not. The moderators have
been elected from the at the time list
members, and were originally a few more that the remaining crew of
three.
[Jan is lying as he was
elected by Nancy and set as moderator before the final tally of the
farce that was called an "election" during the TT-INC takeover.
However, I was the one stepping up the
moderation after the failed predictions. We
are now back to the original list operation, where offending
posters may lose their posting privilege or be banned as Clipper
now has done with Christer for the nth time.
Christer has done the same a number of times
before, starting out nicely but then degrading into name calling, four
letter words etc.
Moderation took far too much time, but was the right thing to do at the
time. As all the moderators have lives outside of this list,
things may get a bit heated before one of us
has the possibility to crack down on the
disruptor. When I logged on today after less than 2 days offline, I had
>140 messages from TT Watch alone! Some people definitely have too much
spare time available...
Regards,
Jan
------o------
From: "angelisle2003" <angelisle2003@y...>
Date: Sat Jun 28, 2003 5:59 pm
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
--- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com,
"Clipper Ordiway" <cannex@m...> wrote:
[Note: Christer has been banned by me, not Jan. For foul language,
insults and name calling that were unnecessary and uncalled for. And
because others complained.]<
Guess we all saw that one coming....
--- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "Jan" <anybody@a...> wrote:
> No, it's not. The moderators have been elected from the at the time
list members, and were originally a few more that the remaining crew of
three.<
Not strictly true, the "original" moderators were asked to be moderators
by the "list" owners. These were tt-members who had stepped in many
times and helped "moderate" unofficially for no other reason than to
keep the lists free of clutter during Clipper or Kiko's absence,
(because they had more things to do than sit around reading posts all
the time, that plus the occasional well deserved sleep. It was fondly
referred to as the "posse". The good old days.)
This worked fine until the INC takeover, and rigged votecall in Feb
2002, when an argument started between JosX, (a zetadrone from sci-astro,)
who called for the banning of Michael Cunningham. To this end several of
the "then" official moderators stepped in to defended Michael's
presence, which Jan didn't agree with, especially their attitude towards
JosX so initiated proceedings for their dismissal as moderators, with
Milly seconding the motion. Nancy instantly called for a vote call from
the membership, who were finally polled after several cock-ups,
presenting a whole host of figures, (basically numbers and percentages
that made no sense) from a voting form that
was equally confusing and contradictory. Several calls for a re-vote
were made but ignored and the final confusing tally elected Jan and
Milly as new moderators, with certain original members dismissed with
others kept. (I'm skimming as the story runs deeper than that and can be
found at
http://website.lineone.net/~brian_gillbanks/tttakeover.htm.)
Needless to say those "original" moderators who were kept, didn't stay
in place for long, leaving nearly a full set of TT-INC officers
moderating the tt-groups, (Milly is not TT-INC BTW and the TT-INC is not
legally allowed to interfere with the TT-groups.)
As you can imagine it
caused a fair bit of controversy, which was - how shall I say - swept
under the carpet.
That's when moderation changed and open discussion stopped, increasing
towards May 2003 up to just recently.
[You will note I do not single out any one individual among those
involved. (These are the facts verifiable through the tt-archives and
documented on:
http://website.lineone.net/~brian_gillbanks/zetatalk.htm
Neither is this a personal attack on the messenger, simply an attempt to
set the record straight from the statement made as posted by Jan. Had
anyone else posted the same it would have resulted in the same reply
from me to set the record straight. So if anyone should see this as a
personal attack then it is through their own interpretation and not the
facts.]
Brian (Angel Isle)
------o------
Next to go was Niels
Neumann, former German translator of Zetatalk, who denounced Nancy and
left. He made a very brief appearance once again having a dig at Nancy
and her followers and was banned. (The posting was very quickly deleted
from the archives which can be seen as absent from the number order on
tt-watch no. 16649) Probably deserved but interesting how his post was
made to disappear.
From: "Jan"
<anybody@a...>
Date:
Sat Jun 28, 2003 9:30 pm
Subject: Re: [tt-watch]
The end of Zetababble!
"Niels Neumann" wrote:
Here is Nielsbiru, the former German translator of Zetababble. Do
you remember me? I kissed you all goodbye in September 2001 with a
big bang. Now I am totally against Nanzeta and her BS. Nanzeta shall
never open her mouth again!<
Nor shall you, at least not on the TT
lists. Goodbye!
Jan
------o------
At this point Brent Freemont (TT-INC) stepped
in and announced:
From:
"brenfree2003" <brenfree@e...>
Date:
Sat Jun 28, 2003 10:19 pm
Subject:
Moderation
OK, just so everyone knows - Yaaada
and Judyh30 are back on moderation.
[See didn't last long did it
and all they actually did was throw a few quips about the failed PX.]
And yes, this is my way of "warning" -
play nice, and I will take you off moderation. TT-watch is NOT the place
for "Nanzeta", "brainwash", or "there is no Planet X" conversation. This
is a list about Planet X and growing earth changes news, and if you
can't contribute in a posative way, just leave, and save me the trouble
of moderation.
[Clipper has just stated
that tt-watch is no longer about Planet X, he's even changed the list
description to reflect this, yet now Brent is telling everyone it is.
Now how's that for confusion. But there is no Planet X Brent, or hadn't
you noticed? Basically he's telling everyone that if you don't fall into
his belief then you'll be moderated or banned, just like Jan and
remember both are TT-INC.]
Protesting, or whineing, or asking for a
personal explaination as to "why I'm picking on you" will only make it
worse, so don't bother. Be polite, play nice - thats all you have to do.
[And if you dare
ask what it is you've done or protest you will face a ban. How fair is
that ladies and gentlemen? Now tell me that the tt-groups are not a
dictate.]
Brent
List owner & one of the moderators
[Notice the spelling
mistakes? Jan did not recommend Brent get a spell checker, I wonder
why?]
------o------
From here on in TT was put
on "full" moderation with nothing getting through at all despite Brent's
claims only two members posts were being moderated. I know because I
attempted several times to reply and they never appeared on the lists.
See below:
To: tt-watch@yahoogroups.com
From: angelisle2003 <angelisle2003@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:04 am
Subject: Re: Moderation
--- In tt-watch@yahoogroups.com, "brenfree2003" <brenfree@e...>
wrote:
This is a list about Planet X and growing earth changes news, and if you
can't contribute in a posative way, just leave, and save me the trouble
of moderation. Protesting, or whineing, or asking for a personal
explaination as to "why I'm picking on you" will only make it worse, so
don't bother.
Just to clarify, Clipper has changed tt-watch list description/premise
to now state:
Troubled Times Watch - discussion about the topics in The Word section
such as the government, UFO's, weather, news articles and yes, even a
few conspiracy theories once in a while (until it gets personal). Not
for social chatter, jokes, scientific rantings or ones personal
dreams...... The premise of Troubled Times is that cataclysmic changes
are potentially in our future, and that preparation means assuming the
worst of what geological and written history tell us. Please, visit
http://www.zetatalk.com/thub.htm for more info.
You'll note there is no mention of Planet X or Nancy, which is contrary
to what you've just told everyone. Either you are list owner or Clipper
is, one is right the other wrong, or both are right and we're just
confused, which is nothing new. So which is it?
I realise this will probably get me banned but it seems there's double
standards showing here. We have TT-INC moderators having their say about
the zeta failed predictions and Nancy's possible reasons for being
wrong, tt-hierarchy members discrediting Nancy's postings every time she
comes up with a new one, yet when the debunkers or membership speak out
they risk being moderated and banned.
OK Christer deserved it and so did Niels, but to return to moderation,
editing and refusing based on "personal" opinion is archaic to say the
least. The odd remark is only natural under the circumstances, why even
the moderators have done it recently. So isn't it time to take "your"
personal feelings out of the equation and like Clipper "go with the
flow".
You all know me and my feelings for the TT-hierarchy I certainly
wouldn't miss any of you if you were to go tomorrow, but is this really
the image you want to paint for yourselves? Because from an "outsider"
point of view this "unmoderating" nonsense is fooling no one. So far all
we've heard is "I" this and "I" that which is hardly anything
constituting a democracy or free speech when coming from the Nancy's TT-INC
(and let's face it you're all TT-INC excluding Clipper and Milly.)
Granted you might care less, but I'm sure there the odd one or two of
you who do.
Besides they'll only come back as someone else if they feel like it and
the only way to stop that would be to put TT back on full moderation,
which sort of defeats the purpose of what you've already done.
Either that or change the premise to re-include Planet X and Nancy and
save new members and yourselves some confusion.
[Note: This is not a personal attack on the messenger, but rather an
observation of current events and postings taking place at the moment on
the TT-groups in responce to both Clipper and Brent.]
Brian (Angel Isle)
------o------
The post never appeared,
indeed the TT-groups were locked down completely from
10.19pm to 4.53am.
When the next post slipped through. (probably to try
and keep the "unmoderated image".)
From:
"tgmosher2000" <tgmosher2000@y...>
Date:
Sun Jun 29, 2003 4:53 am
Subject:
Re: Moderation
So basically you're saying that if anyone
disagrees with the assertion that there is a planet X and it is causing
"changes" one is going to get cut (i.e., tow the party line or else).
An honest group should allow both opinions (planet X/no planet X) within
the bounds of civil discourse. Otherwise the group becomes a one-sided
we're right and if you don't agree, you're wrong message board that will
become stale and lifeless.
Just my opinion.
Tom
------o------
The groups have been silent since with no posts appearing at all
despite many attempts by myself and others,
and the "protection of the groups"
excuse just doesn't wash anymore as they've
made it obvious the only thing they're
protecting is Nancy and their own deluded beliefs and opinion.
That plus the fact they don't want the
existing and potentially new audience being made
aware of their lies and deceit which is creating and
holding the cult mentality. It's ironic that
Nancy and her disciples push the idea of conspiracy and government
cover-ups when all the time it is "they" who plot in secret, the select
few making decisions on behalf and the good of the whole without ever
asking them what they really think. But then when you think about it, it
is because of their own deceit that they expect it from others. They
trust no one, and the paranoia shows itself only too well.
Finally Note: posts began to
drift in dribs and drabs at 11.57am some seven hours later, but messages
from Zeta believers backing their stance on moderation. Surprise,
surprise. (One can't help but imagine them running around in closed
session for those seven hours, panicking,
franticly trying to
decide what to do, hoping no one has notice the embarrassing silence,
concocting some elaborate excuse in case someone should ask. (Sad really
and Jan has the cheek to tell the membership to get a life, at least I'm
not having to read every incoming TT post to make sure it falls within
their guidelines.)
What was it Nancy said,
"...we've always allowed a
great deal of argument and
discussions, pros and cons to go on, encouraged
it, the whole Troubled Time mailing
list group is one..."
except her own TT INC
moderation isn't doing a very good job of covering it up.
Reminds me of that
"Simpson's" episode when Homer joins a cult. "Na, na, na, na, na, na, na,
na Lieder...., na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, Lieder, Lieder, Lieder,
Lieder....."
Stay tuned the sage is bound
to continue.....
Next
|
