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Jan
- the new debunker
"If, on the
other hand, everything continues as "normal" (whatever
that is), then it is time to dismiss ZetaTalk and everything
affiliated with it once and for all, and get
on with life as before."
Jan Rypdal
For all his pontificating
Jan has turned into what he claims to hate the most - a debunker.
Displaying all the trade marks of those he claims fits within his
least favourite
fraternity. Yet not surprisingly he hasn't been banned or put on moderation. (Wonder why?)
From: "Jan" <anybody@a...>
Date:
Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:14 pm
Subject:
ZetaTalk credibility - time to move on?
After the failed predictions of a pole shift in May, aka the Great White
Lie, I have stated more than once that ZetaTalk has no
credibility left. I would like to expand a
little on this.
[Note the reference to "the
GREAT white lie." Could this be attempted sarcasm at Nancy's
expense? Surely not?]
Before the failed prediction, there had been a number of incorrect
predictions by ZetaTalk. The most important were:
* mid-2002 visibility in amateur equipment,
* failed imaging, claimed to be verified true by the Zetas,
* Iraqi war failure.
However, there is a lot of ZetaTalk that has not been affected by these
failures, and the reasons I regarded ZetaTalk as a valuable
information source to begin with, mostly the
background info on Orientation, Being Human,
Myths etc.
[But this is also
information relayed from Nancy's Zetas. If Jan doesn't believe the
"Great White Lie" shouldn't this also become suspect? After all if they
can lie about something as important as an approaching 12th planet why
should they be truthful about lesser important subjects?]
Most people, and especially our crew of debunkers, will
dismiss this kind of information as New Age mumbo jumbo, and will
most probably jump at me with the scientific
explanations that man is the produce of genes
and environment only. Admittedly, it takes better than average
insight to see beyond these myths.
[So Jan by his statement is
claiming to have better than the average insight allowing him to see
beyond these subjects claimed as myths. Obviously still claiming some
elitist illumination above the average person. Yet there are literally
hundreds of thousands world wide following such alien/conspiracy topics
all claiming to be able to see beyond their original meaning. (Not very
special after all then.) Indeed obsessive belief tends to create an air
of superiority within its originator, believing they are somehow
different, superior or closer to their Gods. ]
As a parent of 5, I have been
able to observe the huge differences in
personality that each individual is born with,
and how that shapes their lives beyond any external factor,
irrespective of what our sciences may say.
[So what personality is infinite and can
change like the seasons?]
The science part of ZetaTalk is more difficult. Partly, it is dumbed
down, partly it is left hanging in the air
(e.g. if there is no zero, then how do one
account for that state which is neither negative nor positive).
[Dumbed down? It's utter
babble, confusing at best, impossible to understand at worst.]
When it comes to the Universe, the ZetaTalk
story seems a lot more plausible than our
current scientific understanding, and any logical mind will easily see
that our current position on the special two-body case of escape
velocity is seriously flawed.
[The Zeta Universe is utter nonsense as is and
will come to light with the passing of time and our REAL understanding
of it grows.]
With respect to the 12th Planet or Planet X, I have no problem accepting
the possibility of such a rouge planet in our
solar system, nor that our solar system is
binary. The alleged Planet X trajectory is outside of our current
scientific understanding, but the explanation brought forward by
ZetaTalk makes more sense to me than the
belief that everything stays as is due to
Newton. If so, how can the moon slow down and speed up again as it
regularly does? With respect to the
moon itself, I have found no plausible explanation
yet, except from ZetaTalk, for all the perfectly shaped cones in
the moon's surface, sticking out like a sore
thumb vs. the rugged, natural craters.
[Here we go Jan's "new" pet
obsession.]
The biggest problem with ZetaTalk, aside from the failed predictions, is
how NancyTalk and ZetaTalk has been mixing
more and more, the claims for 100%
accuracy where everybody except Nancy can identify the failure,
and lately the handling of gossip and
unverified, ridiculous slowing rotation claims.
[Remember these
are Jan's own personal opinions, but no one asked for his opinion or an
overview of any membership opinion. Besides he couldn't possibly know
the group consensus, yet he's echoing what the "debunker" mindset have
also voiced.]
It seems that ZetaTalk is deliberately staging a situation where nobody
can take ZetaTalk or Nancy serious anymore,
and making certain that the credibility stays
in the gutter.
[Zetatalk is
deliberately "staging" a situation where Zetatalk or Nancy can't be taken seriously?
Nancy "is" Zetatalk which would mean that "she" is destroying its credibility,
(well no one else has access, so outside influence other than her Zetas is impossible.) Could
this be an attempt to blame Nancy without actually appearing
confrontational? Very
devious.]
While I have no possibility to verify the existence of the Zetas, it
should be obvious to everybody (again, except
our debunking crew) that Nancy would be
absolutely unable to create ZetaTalk herself.
[Why should it be obvious to
everyone? H G Well created the
"War of the worlds," Spielberg brought "Indiana Jones" and "ET" to
life on the big screen, so why couldn't Nancy dream up the contents of Zetatalk?
Imagination is a wondrous thing and if Jan
were honest he'd admit there's nothing in her material that isn't mentioned in some
form or other else where.]
Her understanding of
science is extremely limited, and she has time and time again
made huge mistakes when in NancyTalk mode.
[Which might explain all
those mistakes don't you think? So there's the obvious answer.]
I
have also had the pleasure of meeting her
several times (though she does not want to see me anymore now - wonder
why that is...), and have observed her in ZetaTalk mode.
[Because you're now
considered a debunker too. Welcome to the club Jan.]
Whatever
or whoever is speaking telepathically to or
through her, it is definitely far outside her
capability of faking, and the information such relayed can be extremely
specific and accurate, far beyond what any psychic can produce.
[Specific,
accurate? He's just stated prior to this that her accuracy is
speculation at best, now he's contradicting himself. What specific
accurate references, examples and proof might be interesting. But then
just how many legitimate and fake psychics has Jan met?]
What then are we to make of ZetaTalk and the claim that the pole shift
is still imminent?
First of all, ZetaTalk has now for a number of months claimed that
Planet X is within the Solar system, inside
Uranus orbit. ZetaTalk has also stated a
number of times that Planet X will pass through the whole solar system
in 3 months. If one is to accept the premise
and explanation for the White Lie, then the
time for a pole shift should be within weeks, a month at the most.
[Well Nancy's
still claiming any day now.]
Is this plausible?
Reasons against an upcoming pole shift within this time frame:
* There are no credible or verifiable sightings of Planet X. Posted
images of a second sun are without exception
lens flares or overloaded chips, and
observations of the sun with scopes or goggles with solar filters show
nada.
* There is no observable rotation slowing or satellite failures.
* The ZetaTalk information (ref both points above) is becoming less and
less trustworthy.
Possible reasons why ZetaTalk may not yet be completely dismissed:
* The erratic weather continues, breaking record after record throughout
the
world.
* Something is up with the sun, being hotter and brighter than usual,
even for the summer time period in the
northern hemisphere.
* The Iraqi war prediction was not against the war itself, but the
outcome, i.e. the plan for taking over the oil
reserves etc. This prediction seems more and
more plausible with the current developments in Iraq.
* Parts of the explanation for the White Lie were true, and the
terrorist alert was code Orange during the
predicted pole shift dates.
[Notice how he
is edging his bets for the viewing "believer" public by keeping within
certain elements of Nancy's predictions. Very clever.]
I for one have a hard time accepting or understanding such a deliberate
scheme (or scam) over 8 years, with such a grand failure at the
predicted date.
[Ever considered Nancy is
simply deluded?]
I am therefore willing to give
the White Lie explanation a small benefit of
doubt, but not in any shape or form allow it to interfere with my
normal life.
[But then you
never did Jan even when you claimed to be a believer.]
I suggest the following guidelines for how to deal with this (admittedly
small) uncertainty:
* Keep an open eye for possible rotation slowing, or earthquakes out of
the
ordinary. Do not trust media coverage (not
because of conspiracy, but because large
quakes in uninhabited areas seldom gets reported).
* Work as usual. (Or go to school or whatever you normally do.)
* If your work includes travel, then travel as usual, but make certain
that you have a possibility to terminate the
trip and return home ASAP. (E.g. have a
changeable ticket and/or necessary credit cards to get new
tickets.)
* If you have made investments in property at a safe area, then keep it
and any supplies like food, seeds, windmills,
tools etc. on site. If you can't make it,
somebody else may take advantage of it.
* If nothing has happened for another month+, clear you mind of any
ZetaTalk information, and do whatever you like
with that property, equipment etc.
[Sound advice
although exactly what Jan proved to be doing all along, despite urging
the believers to prepare prior to the failed pole shift.]
If a pole shift does happen within the indicated time frame, then the
White Lie may be regarded as a test only, and
any preparations have not been wasted. If, on
the other hand, everything continues as "normal" (whatever
that is), then it is time to dismiss ZetaTalk and everything
affiliated with it once and for all, and get
on with life as before.
[More edging I
note.... We'll see if he
stands by those words or prove yet again just how much of a hypocrite he
really is after Sept 18th shall we?]
Regards,
Jan
PS.
I offer this only as my current viewpoint on ZetaTalk and the
possibility of a pole shift or not. I have no
intention whatsoever to get into any of the
lengthy, tiresome arguments our debunking crew is mastering so well.
(And, I will be on the road for the upcoming 2 weeks, focusing on
anything but ZetaTalk, pole shift etc.)
[Had anyone other than
Nancy's elite posted this they would have been banned, yet Brent and his
clan, you'll notice, make no comment at Jan's very obvious and personal
opinion. Indeed my original e-mail is still banned for simply correcting
Jan's after he stated he was asked to take up the role of head
moderators, when in fact the record shows he instigated a TT-INC
takeover in league with Nancy ensuring his position as chief
dictatorship over the tt-groups. Jan talks a lot about truth, his
dislikes of deceit and lies, but basically anything that does not
involve anyone questioning his own credibility or actions.]
------o------
From: Michael
L Cunningham <bogeystar@e...>
Date:
Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:01 pm
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] ZetaTalk credibility - time to move
on?
First off Jan, one must suspend rational belief to
accept that aliens are talking through Nancy.
Zetatalk isn't anymore valuable than the Star or
National Inquirer for valid information. It is New Age mumbo
jumbo as you so put it in as much as you
choose to disregard what mankind has learned
through the ages.
>The science part of ZetaTalk is more difficult.
Partly, it is dumbed down, partly it is left
hanging in the air (e.g. if there is no zero, then how do
one account for that state which is neither negative nor
positive). When it comes to the Universe, the
ZetaTalk story seems a lot more plausible than
our current scientific understanding, and any logical mind will easily
see that our current position on the special
two-body case of escape velocity is seriously
flawed.<
Dumbed down is being nice. The only science
presented in Zetatalk is what Nancy learned
from the folks at sci.astro and she then proceeded to twist and
mold it to fit her own reality. It's obvious you still have
chosen not to study the
actual science of mankind to understand the Universe as it
currently exists. You fail to understand
two-body orbital mechanics or escape velocity since you
seem to think it's flawed. ( I guess mankind never went into
orbit or to the moon
since it's the very same science we used)
>With respect to the 12th Planet or Planet X, I
have no problem accepting the possibility of
such a rouge planet in our solar system, nor that our solar
system is binary. The alleged Planet X trajectory is outside of
our current scientific understanding, but the
explanation brought forward by ZetaTalk makes
more sense to me than the belief that everything stays as is due to
Newton. If so, how can the moon slow down and speed up again as
it regularly does? With respect to the moon
itself, I have found no plausible explanation
yet, except from ZetaTalk, for all the perfectly shaped cones in the
moon's surface, sticking out like a sore thumb
vs. the rugged, natural craters.<
It may be outside your current scientific
understanding but for those of us who
understand and observe orbital mechanics, we know Planet X cannot exist
as described. It's also obvious you've never
read up on the moons geology if you think
perfectly shaped cones exist on it's surface.
>The biggest problem with ZetaTalk, aside from
the failed predictions, is how NancyTalk and
ZetaTalk has been mixing more and more, the claims for 100%
accuracy where everybody except Nancy can identify the failure,
and lately the handling of gossip and
unverified, ridiculous slowing rotation claims.<
Now we finally agree on something that's very
obvious.
>It seems that ZetaTalk is deliberately staging
a situation where nobody can take ZetaTalk or
Nancy serious anymore, and making certain that the
credibility stays in the gutter. While
I have no possibility to verify the existence of the Zetas, it should
be obvious to everybody (again, except our debunking crew) that
Nancy would be absolutely unable to create
ZetaTalk herself. Her understanding of science
is extremely limited, and she has time and time again made huge
mistakes when in NancyTalk mode. I have also had the pleasure of
meeting her several times (though she does not
want to see me anymore now - wonder why that
is...), and have observed her in ZetaTalk mode. Whatever or whoever
is speaking telepathically to or through her, it is definitely
far outside her capability of faking, and the
information such relayed can be extremely
specific and accurate, far beyond what any psychic can produce.<
You haven't searched the internet lately to see
how many such sites exist. If you believe
Nancy cannot fake her "channeling" then she's successfully dupe
you into believing her.
>What then are we to make of ZetaTalk and the
claim that the pole shift is still imminent?
First of all, ZetaTalk has now for a number of months claimed
that Planet X is within the Solar system,
inside Uranus orbit. ZetaTalk has also stated a
number of times that Planet X will pass through the whole solar
system in 3 months. If one is to accept the
premise and explanation for the White Lie,
then the time for a pole shift should be within weeks, a month at the
most. Is this plausible?<
Hell! What's waiting for a few months amongst
friends? LOL!
>Reasons against an upcoming pole shift within
this time frame: * There are no credible or
verifiable sightings of Planet X. Posted images of a second sun are
without exception lens flares or overloaded chips, and observations of
the sun with scopes or goggles with solar filters show nada.
* There is no observable rotation slowing or satellite failures.
* The ZetaTalk information (ref both points above) is becoming
less and less trustworthy.<
It hasn't been trustworthy since day one.
>Possible reasons why ZetaTalk may not yet be
completely dismissed: * The erratic weather
continues, breaking record after record throughout the world.
* Something is up with the sun, being hotter and brighter than
usual, even for the summer time period in the northern hemisphere.
* The Iraqi war prediction was not against the war itself, but
the outcome, i.e. the plan for taking over the oil reserves etc. This
prediction seems more and more plausible with the current developments
in Iraq.* Parts of the explanation for the White Lie were true, and the
terrorist alert was code Orange during the predicted pole shift dates.<
Since we're safe from massive tidal waves, I have
some swamp land to sell you in Florida.
>I for one have a hard time accepting or understanding such a deliberate
scheme (or scam) over 8 years, with such a grand failure at the
predicted date. I am therefore willing to give
the White Lie explanation a small benefit of
doubt, but not in any shape or form allow it to interfere with my
normal life.<
I have a hard time swallowing aliens talking
through someone who can't get the science or
time lines right. One would think just how frustrated
the Zetas (as if they ever existed) have become with Nancy. I
would have found a different mouthpiece a long
time ago!
>I suggest the following guidelines for how to
deal with this (admittedly small) uncertainty:
* Keep an open eye for possible rotation slowing, or earthquakes
out of the ordinary. Do not trust media coverage (not because of
conspiracy, but because large quakes in uninhabited areas seldom gets
reported).* Work as usual. (Or go to school or whatever you normally
do.) * If your work includes travel, then
travel as usual, but make certain that you have a possibility to
terminate the trip and return home ASAP. (E.g. have a changeable ticket
and/or necessary credit cards to get new tickets.)
* If you have made investments in property at a safe area, then
keep it and any supplies like food, seeds, windmills, tools etc. on
site. If you can't make it, somebody else may take advantage of it.* If
nothing has happened for another month+, clear you mind of any ZetaTalk
information, and do whatever you like with that property,
equipment etc. If a pole shift does happen
within the indicated time frame, then the White
Lie may be regarded as a test only, and any preparations have not
been wasted. If, on the other hand, everything
continues as "normal" (whatever that is), then
it is time to dismiss ZetaTalk and everything affiliated with
it once and for all, and get on with life as before.
Regards, Jan<
We're so happy you cleared that up for us! We
thought for a moment you had started believing
Nancy is 100% correct again!
Michael
------o------
From:
"Jan" <anybody@a...>
Date: Sat Jul
19, 2003 9:52 am
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] ZetaTalk credibility - time to move
on?
"Michael L Cunningham" wrote:
<snip standard debunking attempts>
>It's also obvious you've never read up on the moons geology if you
think perfectly shaped cones exist on it's surface.<
To get an alternative view on the moon, I would
recommend you read up on the classics:
Fred Steckling:
We discovered alien bases on the Moon. (1981, revised 1997)
(Note: This is the only book still in print, and may be ordered
from Amazon.com. The others are only available
used, and rather expensive as well.)
George H. Leonard:
Somebody Else Is on the Moon (1976).
William L. Brian, II:
Moongate: The suppressed findings of the US Space Program (1982).
(Note: Parts of this book are pretty good, while other parts are highly
speculative and should be disregarded.)
[Well that's
changed he proclaimed the book as crap when he first read it, posting
his opinion on tt-watch no less even though the group has nothing to do
with general gossip and banter.]
Then, I would encourage you to download a copy of the Virtual Moon Atlas
from http://astrosurf.com/avl/UK_download.html.
Make certain you download all the various images as well (Lopam, Apollo,
Clementine & Probes). Examine all the images. E.g. Plato, where
there are 3 perfect circular cones spread
around the actual crater, Archimedes where
there are two such cones, Al-Marrakushi, Angstrom, Bancroft, Biot,
Carlini, Chladni etc. where the craters
themselves are such perfect circular cones.
There seems to be hundreds of them! Anyone that can prove these are
natural deserves at least one Nobel price.
Jan
[Price? Shouldn't that be
prize? Could it be Jan needs a spell checker too? (Well he did try that
one on me, so who can blame me for returning the honour. Besides anyone
who can prove these craters were man-made or alien of some kind or other
instead would also require a similar Nobel prize for finally proving man
went to the moon and landed or that intelligent aliens do finally exist.
Michael Cunningham has been an amateur astronomer for many, many years
and here is Jan, a full, five minute wonder telling him what to look
for. Now that's what I call an ego.
Yet for someone whose just
announced he will not return debate to any of the debunking crowd Jan is
displaying scant little control by instantly replying to Michael. But
then Jan is very good at the art of hypocrisy and contradiction along
with having the last word, especially where Michael Cunningham is
concerned.]
------o------
Not too long to Sept 18th,
anyone care to place any bets as to whether Jan will disappear from the
tt-groups?
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