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“Troubled
Times is an independent legal body, and is no puppet of ZetaTalk.” Jan
Rypdal Again
I must now point out that Troubled Times INC has guidelines, which
stipulate that the INC has no legal power over the groups.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/8721 From:
"mw3172001" milly@w... Date:
Mon Feb 25, 2002 12:55 am Subject:
Re: Dismissal of the TT Posse? ---
In tt-watch@y..., "helena" <iamhelena@r...> wrote: Now,
let me get this straight--are we voting for the dismissal of the posse
itself, or for the dismissal of the concept? I don't think the posse per
se was voted in, therefore, how can they be voted out? Best
regards, Helena.<< ------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/8866 From: "nancylieder" <zetatalk@z...> Date:
Thu Feb 28, 2002 7:50 pm Subject:
Votecall Results - Keep the Posse, But ... Out
of the almost 275 individuals who have voting priviledges due to their
contributions to the content of functioning of the web site: 1
is deceased (Martha) 2
were banned in prior years (Eric and Teka) 4
have requested not to be polled 8
declined to vote for various reasons 1
abstained (Brent) 43
had bad addy's, did not notify us of a change, prior to this
votecall 52
proved to have bad addys THIS votecall, since the tt-watch vs tt-gossip
votecall 9
of these I was able to locate an updated e-mail addy and repolled. 118
have yet to vote and this is normal, a low (25% at best) percentage
replying 46
voted Of
46 actually voting (a better percentage than most votecalls), the results
have been an almost dead heat between rataining the posse as is and
retaining it with a somewhat changed Marshal roster. Many voters were
confused and checked [x] as is and indicated what Marshals they wanted,
often some NEW members. Thus, I think the spirit of the vote is
overwhelmingly to keep the tt-posse but have the Marshals hold their posts
based on membership vote. As I omitted to mention some of the existing
Marshals in the initial vote (including myself, Nancy) I will issue a
followup votecall for these individuals and any individuals nominated
during the votecall. [Out
of a membership of something like 800 only 46 voted. What she neglected to
say out of those “eligible” to vote and guess who decides who’s
eligible?] Of
the 46 voting, the results were: 4
wanted the tt-possee disbanded 16
wanted the Posse to remain
as is 16
wanted the Posse retained, with a change in Marshals 17
voted
for Clipper 17
voted for Brent 13
voted
for Gerard 1
voted for Laura (and also nominated Michael Cunningham as Marshal 10
voted for Jan 12
voted for Milly [Remember
the ballot paper, how confusing it was? Well only 46 voted but there are
now 106. Breaking it down 64 voted to keep the original posse, 4 to get
rid of it all together, 16 to change Marshals and 22 for two new posse
members. An overwhelming majority to keep things as they were. Yet….] So
it appears that
existing Marshal's Clipper, Brent, Gerard are heartily approved by those
indicating they wanted to change the roster.
[But
those indicating a change were a minority so why is she implementing it?] NEW
members Jan and Milly also got a majority of those wanting a change. [They
were the only two NEW additions on the ballot so yes I guess they would
get the only votes.] I
will be issuing a followup votecall regarding existing tt-posse members
who were overlooked during this vote – George, Kiko, Nancy, and Antti.
I will also include in this runoff
nominations are follows - Tristan, Mary, and Michael Cunningham :-) [New
members Jan and Milly? The membership voted to keep as is, not bring in
two more TT-Inc officers. The new members only polled 22 votes and Nancy
didn’t even bother including the other “posse” members in the
original vote. In fact the ballot was rigged aimed directly at the end she
was trying to achieve. The vote was a farce and should have been
re-issued. Still also remember 118 have yet to vote according to Nancy,
although the figures are definitely suspect.] -----o----- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/8876 From:
mcrago@w... ”FOUL!
In my opinion, all who voted to retain the existing posse were indicating
their preference for Brent, Gerard, and Laura and NOT Jan or Milly. The
way you calculated the votes reminds me of the Florida Bush election.” Maggie -----o----- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/8899 From:
"Gantner, George" <George.Gantner@m...> I
agree with Maggie, this IS sounding Florida-esque. Now the polls have been
kept open to gain the desired result as well. I don't understand how one
can conclude that Laura has been voted out. 16
people voted "retain the posse as is", by Nancy's published
count. "Retain the posse as is" should be counted as positive
retention votes for each individual who is currently on the posse,
including Clipper, Brent, Gerard, and Laura. By that logic, the vote
counts (based on the published numbers) would be: 33
for Clipper 33
for Brent 29
for Gerard 17
for Laura 10
for Jan 12
for Milly And
for those of us mistakenly left off being named as individuals, 16
for Nancy 16
for George 16
for Kiko 16
for Antti 16
for Michael Murphy (who has been forgotten again on this second ballot) This
is messy, frankly, and confusing. In retrospect, the best way to conduct
the vote would have been: First, vote on the question: Get rid of the
posse, Keep the posse as is, Keep the posse concept but vote on the
marshal list. THEN secondly, given the result of a majority wanting to
change the roster, vote on each member individually. At
this point, the fairest way to do this would be to reissue the second
ballot, and have ALL ELIGIBLE vote on EACH current or prospective member
of the posse INDIVIDUALLY, including EVERYONE mentioned above. -----o----- From:
"Gantner, George" <<***
said: Yes
indeed, that whole "mailing list" that Nancy sent her message to
is completely bogus. It's a big wonder to try and figure out where she got
it from, who the hell are most of those people?Nancy used to have another,
MUCH larger, list of contributors to the TT. Remember the original
"150 contributors" list that she posted to tt-member, George?
What happened to the old list, and how this particular new list came to
be, is a mystery. >> I
am very aware of that list, because I AM THE OFFICIAL KEEPER OF IT!
I cleaned up and de-duped the various lists she had into one list about a
year ago. Nancy has sent me quarterly updates ever sinc , the last
one on 1/13/02. Though I am behind in updating the file, I have all
the names she has sent me. By
the way, I haven't sent her a copy of that list in about a year, nor has
she asked for it. <<
As I said in my own reply to that bogus vote, reposted here - I think that
very mailing list is the best proof that Nancy is losing her mind. Either
she's going clinically insane, or her "dark side" is
winning Big Time, and turning her into something less than human. She has
no idea who her own supporters are, nor does she seem to care, even when
striking out against someone and trying to consolidate her own position.
How utterly pathetic to see.... Nancy
alone defines what a contribution is. My understanding is that
anyone who's post gets incorporated into the website is automatically a
contributor (like your buddy). Now I don't know your buddy Italy,
but he IS ON my list of qualified prospects for membership. Also
the list of names on MY votecall ballot is different from either of
yours. I suspect she was just sending the out in chunks of twenty or
so names, so we aren't seeing most of them. However,
my list as well as each of yours contains names which are NOT in my
prospect or tt-inc member lists. And as I said, I am officially the
keeper of the prospect and membership lists, acknowledged as recently as
1/13/02, and she did not get the list for the votecall from me. "Democracy"
indeed. -----o----- -----Original
Message----- From:
Taylor [mailto:isnfreal@yahoo.com] Sent:
Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:47 AM Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Dismissal of the TT Posse? Nancy
and Jan,
Nancy
and Jan, Well,
glad to ***know*** you! OK, you can now call to ban me if you so desire. Regards, -----o----- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/8897 From:
"nancylieder" <zetatalk@z...> We've
had a couple additional votes on the original ballot indicating to retain
tt-posse but VOTE on Marshal roster, which puts this option 2 ahead of the
simple "keep as is" option. I've forwarded these additional
ballots to Clipper and Brent, who are getting all copies of all ballots,
etc. [64
voted to keep the original posse with 16 against so how can an additional
2 put it ahead of “keep as is” that’s only 18. But what of the other
116 votes?] -----o----- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/8925 From:
Gerard Zwaan <gerard@e...> So
what's the reason for this vote, this vote for what i read is based on
prejudice. Premise
of Troubled Times tt-watch -----o----- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/8918 From:
DAVID STORØY <spiritshaman@c...> It
is totally chaos on TT-lists and several former TT-members is blaming
Nancy and other TT-members(including Jan) on TT-lists and Sci.Astro for
dictatorship, wrong info etc - I do not like what is happening right now. David
Skywalker -----o----- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/8924 From:
"mw3172001" <milly@w...> ---
In tt-watch@y..., DAVID STORØY
<spiritshaman@c...> wrote >
It is totally chaos on TT-lists and several former TT-members is blaming
Nancy and other TT-members(including Jan) on TT-lists and Sci.Astro for
dictatorship, wrong info etc - I do not like what is happening right now. David
Skywalker>
Milly -----o----- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/8929 From: "gino_oz" gino@a... Date:
Sat Mar 2, 2002 1:06 am Subject: Re: What is going on? Well, there's nothing like jumping to conclusions if you are not clear about what is going on. I don't suppose that would be a first. Let me set your mind at ease. I was invited to participate in a vote by Nancy, on review, I observe an unconstitutional power play in action. On further analysis I see: Jan saying he will be a dictator, is closer to the Zetas than anyone but Nancy and, hence, knows what's best for everyone. Nancy sponsoring his illegitimate ascension to the Posse after they have both vocalised their dissatisfaction in the Posse for its implementing of their values. Jan unable to represent ZetaTalk effectively on sci.astro so resorting to outright intimidation. Nancy's "vote" is in open dispute by long standing members. Nancy forwards a couple of "late" votes to Clipper to re-enforce her position. All this is helps who exactly? I conclude no one is advantaged by this power mongering except Jan and Nancy (the CFO and Chairman of TT Inc.) so I choose to attempt to raise the awareness of people by the only method I can think of. So
now, Milly, you can throw that baseless, false and completely contrary
story of me seeking to usurp the power base of this group out. The only
thing I have ever sought here is the truth, unfortunately, all I seem to
get is innuendo and lies. Your posting continues the tradition
beautifully. -----o-----
From:
"nancylieder" <zetatalk@z...> We have had 3 additional ballots on the first votecall, and a couple other individuals located so they just received their ballots. These late ballots have not changed the conclusion I reached a couple days ago, that ELECTED Marshals and a retained tt-possee concept are what the membership wants. These new ballots showed: +3
on "keep but elect roster" +3
for Clipper +2
Brent +2
Gerard +1
Jan +2
Milly
So
adjusted tabulation is: Of the 49 voting, the results were:
(16%)
8 declined (2%)
1 abstained (2%)
1 wanted Clipper alone as moderator (8%)
4 wanted the tt-possee disbanded (33%)
16 wanted the Posse to remain as is (39%)
19 wanted the Posse retained, with a change in Marshals <= WON
[Note
how the voting has been thinned down. We’re missing the separate votes
now for the individuals which Nancy is using to elect Jan and Milly.] Retaining the posse but electing Marshal's won. Of the 19 wanting a selection in Marshal's, or otherwise indicating choices (as an option not on the list, single moderator Clipper): (105%)
20 voted for Clipper <= AFFIRMED (100%)19
voted for Brent <= AFFIRMED (79%)
15 voted for Gerard <= AFFIRMED (5%)
1 voted for Laura (and also nominated Michael Cunningham as Marshal) (74%)
14 voted for Milly <= ELECTED [Get
a load of those percentages. 421% and only 49 voted.] Early trends from the run-off votecall with 26 votes in (and the voting slowing to days without a ballot, a sign the election is over) are that the membership wants the current Marshal's (George, Kiko, Antti, and Nancy) retained but are not electing new nomineess. No problem for Mary who is declining the nomination. Besides the person who nominated him, 4 people voted for Michael Cunningham, but these 4 voted for ALL down the ballot (rubber stamp of all) and in most cases are people not active on the list. 2 people emphatically voted NOT for Michael Cunningham, a step not taken for any other individual on the ballot. Of
the 26 ballots received, 1
declined Of
the 25 voting for Marshal choices: (64%)
16 voted for George <= AFFIRMED (76%)
19 voted for Kiko <= AFFIRMED (56%)
14 voted for Antti <= AFFIRMED (76%)
19 voted for Nancy <=
AFFIRMED (40%)
10 voted for Tristan (44%)
11 voted for Mary (20%) 5 voted for Michael This, the Marshal's roster of 8 is: Antti [Those
highlighted were, or still are all TT-Inc officers.] I'm
requesting that Clipper make the necessary changes. I will be sending a
zip file of the final ballots to Clipper and Brent, as votecall auditors,
along with the final tabulation pages. The original votecall instructed
the voters to Reply-All as Brent and Clipper were copied on these ballots
(must have made for a clogged -----o-----
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/9129 From:
"nancylieder" <zetatalk@z...> Date:
Mon Mar 11, 2002 11:09 pm Subject:
Removing a Disrupter Namely,
ME. What do I mean by that? I've noticed that for the past several months,
tt-forum just cooks along, doing its job, with no disruption. I has
occurred to me increasingly that tt-watch is in chaos because folks think:
1. they can tie me up in argument there (remember Cunninham's insistence
that I answer arguments HERE, and not on sci.astro, and inviting everyone
into tt-watch FROM sci.astro for that purpose, etc?) argue with the
messenger if they are uncomfortable with the message. Thus, by NOT having
the messenger here, this reason for disruption is removed. I'm too busy to
all but read a sampling, anyway, and am getting busier. Thus,
I am today unsubscribing myself from tt-watch,
tt-forum and hope this allows this poor list to settle down after awhile. Ta
Ta. ------o------ Interestingly
Nancy didn’t disappear completely. Indeed she still makes the occasional
appearance when she feels like it. So she in fact lied and never
unsubscibed herself and despite the uproar Michael Cunningham is still
holding his own over on the tt-groups.
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