|
“I
think the list police should start unsubscribing some of those that seem
to have problems with understanding what this list is all about.”
Jan
Rypdal
Aug
2001
Despite
preaching the Service to Other (STO) philosophy on which most of the
so-called “true disciple” is supposed to be based the tt-groups have
seen some incredible oustings showing very little patience and
tolerance. Indeed at one stage it became so bad that we were continually
battling to try and stop the vicious attacks on new, misguided, or lost
members, which is one of the reasons we pushed for the set of of tt-welcome
so they could find a safe haven and ask whatever questions they felt
necessary without the continual onslaught of sarcasm, personal abuse and
downright nasty behaviour of the zeta-faithful. Unfortunately the
archives are being deleted so the following examples are but a few of
those that remain.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5735
From:
mikepip@a...
Date:
Tue Aug 14, 2001 10:50 pm
Subject:
Zetalk update
I
checked Zetatalk for the latest update today. I was dismayed to see that
the Zetas/Nancy had the time and desire to comment in length about the
Jon Benet Ramsey case! What does this have to do with the 12th planet
and the Zeta message? How does this further Nancy's credibilty? How can
someone who is so busy, and should be working to give credible proof of
her/their claims, waste time commenting on this subject? This just
doesn't seem right.
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5737
From:
Gerard Zwaan <gerard@e...>
Date:
Tue Aug 14, 2001 11:04 pm
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Zetalk update
Being
human is one of the the subjects/topix of zetatalk. Is it so bad that
someone asked about it and got answered, and why is it wasting time. If
this question was consider to be answered upon?
Zetatalk was and is build on
questions. And not only
questions about the Pole Shift.
[Gerard
is tt-Inc remember this statement as Mikepip is about to get roasted for
asking “questions” on which Zetatalk was and is built.]
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5738
From:
mikepip@a...
Date:
Tue Aug 14, 2001 11:21 pm
Subject:
Re: Zetalk update
The
Jon Benet Ramsey comments were not anything about human nature that were
important at this time, and some of it had nothing to do with human
nature; more of a judgement against the Ramsey's. Also, there are far,
far more important questions that are receiving no response. Zetatalk
was originally built on questions, and I was one of those asking
questions, but this was discontinued due to lack of time, and a need to
address more important issues. There are more important questions and
issues now.
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5751
From:
"Jan" <jr@e...>
Date:
Wed Aug 15, 2001 7:33 am
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Zetalk update
What's
wrong with you guys?
You act like Nancy is a junior employee of TT Watch, and better not
spend her time on anything this list hasn't approved. What right do you
have to decide how Nancy should use her time, and which questions she
should answer?
Sometimes this list reminds me of a bunch of spoiled youngsters making
demands on their parents without any thought of what has already been
delivered. Knock
it off!
And for those that have yet to
understand the Zeta message, their main interest is the Transformation,
not the Pole Shift or the 12th in itself. I suggest some of you read up
on the Transformation & Being Human sections of ZetaTalk.
Regards,
Jan
[Based on questions remember,
but Jan is already putting his own personal foot down even though he’s
just a member of the Inc and not a “moderator” until the “takeover”.]
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5756
From:
mikepip@a...
Date:
Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:29 pm
Subject:
Re: Zetalk update
If
Nancy and Zetatalk are making extraordinary claims, they have a
responsibility to back it up. If not, why make claims, why be on
sci.astro, why ask people to look for the 12th, why mention the 12th
at all, and why would anyone be a part of this list if you weren't
looking to others and Nancy to provide further information. I don't have
any special knowledge or assistance as Nancy supposedly does. This
situation is not as simple as just educating yourself. Believe me, I
have done a lot of reading and research on my own, which has helped me
to conclude that there is most likely something out there.
However, this doesn't mean I shouldn't seek conclusive proof, and it
doesn't let Nancy off the hook for providing evidence of her claims.
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5758
From:
mikepip@a...
Date:
Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:52 pm
Subject:
Re: Zetalk update
Jan:
The reason why we question Nancy and her actions is because of her
extraordinary claims, and her inability to provide responsible answers
and proof of many questions; yet she has time to answer a question about
Jon Benet; the transformation ain't being helped along with that
question. You're right about one thing....Nancy has the right to do
whatever she wants with her time. However, will she use her time to make
sure their is proof of her claims and ensure that she is taken seriously
so that many, many more people can be helped through her knowledge, or
will she continue to be seen as a kook by some of her actions and words.
Nancy can do whatever she wants, but we also have the right to voice our
opinion about what she does. Oh yes, and what
she has delivered so far is nothing that would help anyone here to speak
of this information to family and friends without them thinking we're
all kooks. If you're all set and can take Nancy's word for everything
without any further information, good for you. However, you are not me.
We are here to discuss these issues, voice our opinions, present
information supporting conspiracy.. etc.., not just following Nancy's
word without an objective mind like sheep.
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5761
From:
"Jan" <jr@e...>
Date:
Wed Aug 15, 2001 4:45 pm
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Re: Zetalk update
Mike,
I can only tell you that you will
NEVER get conclusive evidence until it's upon us. If you want to wait
until then, that's up to you.
Evidence will only be available to the extent that we, the humans, can
accept it without generating panic, riots etc. Nancy is only allowed to
act as a messenger for the rest of us to take it or leave it.
As I have said before, I recommend some ZetaTalk reading. For all
evidence demands now and in the future, I will probably keep repeating
the ZetaTalk quote below from "Demand for proof", http://www.zetatalk.com/awaken/a06.htm:
"Have you heard the argument that the majority of a teacher, or
parent, or manager's time is spent on the troublesome? This is certainly
true of the efforts of the police, who are a corps only because of the
troublesome. The troublesome are few, but receive almost all the
attention. We take a different approach in our contacts with humans. We
ignore the troublesome, as they make their own bed, spiritually
speaking, and must lie in it. [...]
We communicate with those who will make a difference, who are either
currently dedicating their lives to worthwhile efforts or will presently
do so. We direct our efforts to those who share our goals."
Finally, these discussions do not belong on TT Watch. Please go to TT
Social (which I don't subscribe to) or somewhere more appropriate.
Regards,
Jan
------o-----
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5762
From:
"Mike Herrmann" <mikeh@t...>
Date:
Wed Aug 15, 2001 5:18 pm
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Re: Zetalk update
<mikepip@a...>
wrote;
>The
reason why we question Nancy and her actions is because of her
extraordinary claims, and.......<
Who's we?
From: <mikepip@a...>
>>Oh
yes, and what she has delivered so far is nothing that would help anyone
here to speak of this information to family and friends without them
thinking we're all kooks.<<
The world is full of "kook's" (as you call them) who have
contributed to mankind events of geneius significance. If you think she
is a kook, why do you read of the rantings of a kook? You prefer rather
to complain, to whine, in a fruitless attempt to convince other's of
your great cloaked concern of the "many, many other's" taking
cheap shots at a person who benefits nothing from lying, or through
misleading statements.
From <mikepip@a...>
>>>.
We are here to discuss these issues, voice our opinions, present
information supporting conspiracy..etc.., not just following Nancy's
word without an objective mind like sheep.<<<
You do not contribute to discussions,
but only question those who know more than you. As far as opinions are
concerned you have those in abundance, and that is all, just opinions
all the while parroting other's. How about something original for a
change if you're so dedicated to helping other's?
From: <mikepip@a...>
>>>Nancy
and Zetatalk are making extraordinary claims, they have a esponsibility
to back it up. If not, why make claims, why be on sci.astro, why ask
people to look for the 12th, why mention the 12th at all, and
why would anyone be a part of this list if you weren't looking to others
and Nancy to provide further information.<<<
When are you going to start thinking
for yourself? You claim to have "read a lot". (not impressed)
Why depend on Nancy, or the Zeta's? You are setting dead still at the
intersection on a green light.
From: <mikepip@a...>
>>>Believe
me, I have done a lot of reading and research on my own, which has
helped me to conclude that there is most likely something out there.
However, this doesn't mean I shouldn't seek conclusive proof, and it
doesn't let Nancy off the hook for providing evidence of her
claims.<<<
Nancy isn't "on the hook".
MikeH
------o-----
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5763
From:
"Mike Herrmann" <mikeh@t...>
Date:
Wed Aug 15, 2001 5:29 pm
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Re: Zetalk update
Jan
is right, take it to tt-social. Good one; "Demand for proof".
Some people just don[t get it.
MikeH
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5764
From:
mikepip@a...
Date:
Wed Aug 15, 2001 5:33 pm
Subject:
Re: Zetalk update
Nancy:
I have never claimed that you have been completely wrong and never
provided any information to back your claims. In fact, I do believe in
the 12th and I have been following Zetatalk since 1995. However, this
doesn't mean that the information you detailed below would make a
difference to others. Let's ask here....did anyone in your family or any
other family and friends of anyone on this list take Zetatalk seriously
because of the predictions that Nancy details below. In my case and most
likely in everyone else's case, the answer would be NO. In fact, I
wouldn't even take this information to some as proof that Nancy knows
what she's talking about. This information may be proof of your
abilities in your own mind and some others, but not for most people.
This is why a lot of people think you're a kook; by the way, I'm not one
of them at this point. Also, please, you're still listing the supposed
sightings earlier this year as proof. Where are the pictures? Where is
the confirmation that these people were looking at the coordinates you
posted and saw the right celestial
body? Nowhere....I've seen nothing. I'm sure these people were at an
observatory and saw something, but who knows what, and their word and
you saying yes they saw it is not enough. My concern and others here is
to not only prepare, but to ensure that others will take this seriously.
At times, your words and actions make it hard to present to others. You
are not always responsible about providing answers to important
questions or proof to back up your knowledge. This is different from
saying that you have never provided any answers or proof. In fact, I
have stood up for you on many occasions, stating such things as you have
never changed the date of May 2003. A small
fact in your favor since most who dare to make predictions always change
the date or are wishy-washy about it. However, I believe you are human
and don't always act appropriately or focus on the right thing just like
the rest of us. Looking at information objectively and not followiing
someone like sheep, as you have said about those on sci.astro many
times, doesn't mean that anyone is providing disinfo. There are many
times when you don't have your facts straight; you make assumptions
about people, what people meant or who they are attributing comments.
You are entitled to say what you want, and under the circumstances,
everyone here and throughout the world is entitled to consider it and
express their opinion about it. My opinion, instead of spending your
time making assumptions about me or Michael C. in the posting, you
should have answered Niels questions about the pointers, or provided
solid corroborative information to those who are quesitoning your
knowledge here and on sci.astro. Just my opinion.
By the way, still at this point, I do want to clarify that I support
your cause and I know that it must be a hard and stressful burden. I
admire that you have been able to stick to your guns and continue all
these years. Peace and love.
Michael
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5765
From:
mikepip@a...
Date:
Wed Aug 15, 2001 5:48 pm
Subject:
Re: Zetalk update
First,
I believe what I'm discussing is from the Word. Nancy's response to a
question. Others here have responded and I responded in kind. This is
not a tt-social comment in my opinion.
Also, I'm not asking anyone to convert me or discouraging anyone from
Zetatalk. You people really don't read other people's postings
thoroughly. I am discussing information that is presented here in this
forum. Just because I don't believe every little bit of information
presented here should be swallowed, doesn't mean that I don't believe,
I'm not preparing, or I'm demanding proof. However, I do want others to
know. If it wasn't important for others to know, if proof isn't
necessary, then why does Nancy participate in the sci.astro debates, why
are there volumes of information on Zetatalk. It's great that Jan and
Mike Hermann are so comfortable with everything, and "get it",
but not everyone here feels the way you do, and you should have more
respect for it; who's to say that you are right.
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5766
From:
mlistman@i...
Date:
Wed Aug 15, 2001 5:49 pm
Subject:
Questioning Zeta Talk
Mike,
Questioning this information should be on everyone's agenda, so I can't
fault your intentions.
However there is a larger issue at hand. If you can honestly say to
yourself that all of the information presented is baseless, then you are
wasting your time here. If on the other hand you have found at least
SOME of the ZT message to be valid, then it would behove you to alter
your priorities.
You can argue this or that point until you are blue in the face, but
this wil not alter a fast approaching, prove-all date now less than 2
years away. I choose to spend my time in preparation.
As to discussing this with your family and friends, I have found a
relative constant in these matters. Most people are set in their beliefs
and will not change their minds no matter how authentic or valid the
proof, as this issue is a hard one to truly acknowledge. I have met
those who demand endless proof, those who shrug it off, and those who
take it to heart.
5/15/2003 is the only test I hold the Zetas to. I've burned no bridges
in my preparation so if it doesn't happen I can just drop my water
distiller and go home ;-)
This information matches that from so many disconnected sources that I
lend it credibility. It is only the level of detail ZT provides that
leaves it open to widespread questioning.
Mike you seem to be one of those whose threshold of proof is too high to
surmount...
So what is it YOU will be doing for the next year and a half?
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5767
From:
mikepip@a...
Date:
Wed Aug 15, 2001 5:59 pm
Subject:
Re: Zetalk update
Mike
H:
You
obviously don't read the postings very carefully if you haven't noticed
the others here who question Nancy's actions from time to time. Also, if
Nancy makes claims, she's responsible for backing it up. You may not
need to hear anymore from here, but there are others who do.
I'm done with this thread. You have your opinion and I have mine.
>>The reason why we question
Nancy and her actions is because of her extraordinary claims, and.......
<<
> Who's we?<
>>Believe me, I have done a lot of reading and research on my own,
which has helped me to conclude that there is most likely something out
there. However, this doesn't mean I shouldn't seek conclusive proof, and
it doesn't let Nancy off the hook for providing evidence of her
claims.<<
>Nancy isn't "on the hook".<
------o-----
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5768
From:
"Mike Herrmann" <mikeh@t...>
Date:
Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:43 pm
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Re: Zetalk update
<mikepip@a...>
wrote:
>You
obviously don't read the postings very carefully if you haven't noticed
the others here who question Nancy's actions from time to time. Also, if
Nancy makes claims, she's responsible for backing it up.<
Yes I do read them, and carefully, at that; but the other's don't say
one thing and in the same breath, or in a following post contradict
themselve's. They make forthright statements without mincing words,
without vascillating hither and yon. I have no need to argue with them.
I respect affirmations; I question ambiguities.
And I confer; I'm done with this too.
MikeH
------o-----
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5769
From: brian_gillbanks@l...
Date:
Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:38 pm
Subject:
RE: [tt-watch] Re: Zetalk update
Not
quite right Jan The troublesome are a creation of the control, AKA
police,
Government, whoever to perpetuate and justify their right to control.
Were you not taught as a child to question until understanding was
achieved? Surely to just sit and nod in agreement, appearing to know,
when in fact you are dumbfounded is only doing yourself a disservice
rather than appearing bothersome to your tutor. Were we all perfect and
enlightenment instant then perhaps we could sit in complacency.
Many were drawn here for reasons they have not yet discovered. Most sit
in silence waiting and watching. Observing those less afraid to comment
on TT. Drawing their conclusions in solitude. They still have a million
questions, some trivial, some perhaps vital, but hold back from
enquiring for the wrath that might be incurred. On those occasions when
courage is gained and on the whole the query remains unanswered,
although sometimes other TT members will offer an opinion or two, but
the source in it's infinite wisdom chooses to decline a response. Many
have already decided who to believe and nothing will sway their, on the
other hand there are those who see contradictions, but
face the certain knowledge that they will never hear the answers to
those growing doubts so the game grows weary and the frustration weighs
heavily on their shoulders. They want to cut to the chase, not in one
year nine months.
The bold on the other hand hold no such fears, yet they are branded
disrupters,
simply because they do not go with the flow, perhaps limelighting,
stealing thunder from the Gods. Some I have no doubt are just that, but
others are mere frustrated half believers/sceptics trying to come to
terms with their own beliefs. (Does this remind you of anything? It
should. It's how the so called norm treat us on TT.)
The Zeta's ask us to make a leap of faith, yet sit in complacency
watching
over us like New Age Gods. They are responsible for Zetatalk so must
expect the curious to question its validity. They crave our attention,
wish us to believe. Why else all this perpetuated sci-astro debate. To
get the scientific fields looking? It's already been explained that they
won't admit anything for fear of the secret governments wrath. So that's
not likely, now or in the near future. Instead they taunt us with future
promises and useless titbits yet shy away from important issues which
could aid in our proving past encounters, quoting universal laws when
the questions get too heavy which must again be taken at face value.
They ask us to Awaken, but on their terms only.
My experiences are on record and I stand by them, those and many since,
but I
know we are not being told everything, (and like the Zeta's I can only
ask for
a similar leap of faith). To what extent that deception goes and who are
the ultimate perpetrators cannot be answered without the asking of
questions. On the whole I too sit and watch the perpetual struggle,
drawing my own conclusions from the anticipated silence to the pointed
questions. So if acquisition of knowledge is troublesome then I for one
choose to remain a pain in the arse until my dying breath.
What's the old adage:
Look
but do not touch,
Touch
but don't take,
Taste
but don't swallow,
Doubt
but do not question,
Question
but do not seek the answer.
Brian (Angel Isle)
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5770
From:
"Clipper Ordiway" <clip642@m...>
Date:
Wed Aug 15, 2001 10:26 pm
Subject:
Re: Zetalk update/ List rules
>>Let's
ask here....did anyone in your family or any other family and friends of
anyone on this list take Zetatalk seriously because of the predictions
that Nancy details below<<
Here's what happens my friend. I
take Zetatalk very seriously as well as a few of my friends. Some of my
friends don't buy into it and I don't care. What they do buy into is the
fact that they are my friends and they believe in me, not what I think
to be true. If your friends and family are not helping you prepare, it's
because they aren't following you for one reason or another. Your
conviction is not there. If you do not believe it yourself, no one else
around you will either. Some of you will sit around whining until the
ball drops on your head. At that time, you will say "Why in the
hell didn't someone tell us this was going to happen?" . I have one
friend who lives the life we will have to live later and has for months
now. Although he still has the luxury of in town supplies, he can, will
and has eaten porcupine, beaver, squirrel, ect because he knows that
some day, that will be the meal of the day. Currently, he has learned to
become a loader operator because that is what is needed at the time.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/files/Im000428.jpg
Later, he will learn to become a carpenter, steal worker and cement
finisher because that is what we need to do to prepare for what's
coming. He will live at the site all winter in below zero temps and
continue building what he can. He is not whining, he is doing. If I can
get there through the ice and snow, I will be there also. It is very
easy to sit behind a computer and make small talk and complain that no
one will listen to you. It's not what you say that matters, it's what
you do that counts. Nancy is doing and there are many who don't like
that. Misery loves company and she will not stoop to their level.
I have another friend who does not believe in aliens or a pole shift,
only what his bible tells him. But, he is my friend and he helps me none
the less when he can. He is watching my actions, not what I say. He has
watched my actions close enough that his daughter bought land three
miles from us and is currently putting up a cabin. He is helping her and
will now be in a much better place for survival than he had before. When
he sees that red ball coming, he will know where to go with his family.
He doesn't even believe and he is preparing and doesn't even realize it.
If we were not building where we are, he (they) would not be there
either since they got the idea from us. It's not what you say, it's what
you do that affects others.
We
here are preparing, not whining and we can prove it. My job on Troubled
Times has not changed either. I am still a moderator, list police,
member of the Posse, what ever you wish to call it. I will still do my
job here as well as prepare, but I will do it with much less tolerance
than I had before. Time is short. People don't want to hear whining,
they want information. I figure if they don't want to believe Nancy or
the Zetas, why bother being here? I figure if someone doesn't want to
accept the information given and prepare for themselves or others, they
should shut up and get out of the way so others can. I for one, am
willing to help them get out of the way. We don't need slackers (speed
bumps) plugging up our lists.
There are plenty of new folks here who don't want to hear whining, they
want information.
Clipper
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5776
From:
"Mike O'Hara" <ppplanet@a...>
Date:
Thu Aug 16, 2001 2:02 am
Subject:
Dismayed my foot
"mikepip@a..."
writes:
>>>>"I
was dismayed to see that the Zetas/Nancy had the time and desire to
comment in length about the Jon Benet Ramsey case!"<<<
Translation:
I was *thrilled* to see the Zetas/Nancy comment about Jon Benet, because
it gave me one more item to nitpick about!
>>>> How does this further
Nancy's credibilty?<<<<
You see to be the only one going
anal on her "credibilty" as you call it.
>>> How can someone who is so
busy, and should be working to give credible proof of her/their claims .
. .<<<
Just another of his continuous
attempts to drive a wedge into the group.
>>> . . . waste time
commenting on this subject?<<<
Jeepers, I found the comments rather
insightful and informative, consistent with the ZetaTalk material on
"Being Human."
>>> This just doesn't seem
right.<<<
Translation:
"I realize what the Zetas were up to, but let me try to make
*other* people think it doesn't seem right. Besides, the Zetas need more
of my advice on how to run their lives."
It's so apparent that Mr. "MikePip" is just *clamoring* to
reincarnate as a lieutenant on a militaristic service-to-self planet
next time around.
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5777
From:
"Mike Herrmann" <mikeh@t...>
Date:
Thu Aug 16, 2001 2:46 am
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Dismayed my foot
Seems
like there is a consensus of opinion here as to mp's motivations.
MikeH
[So
much for being done with the subjects.]
------o-----
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5783
From:
yahbo@p...
Date:
Thu Aug 16, 2001 9:44 am
Subject:
Re: Dismayed my foot
sorry
everyone but i got to ask. mr. ohara are stupid or something? i,ll try
to refrain myself in the future
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5790
From:
"Jan" <jr@e...>
Date:
Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:03 pm
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Dismayed my foot
1, No reference to what made our
friend come forward with such an intelligent analysis of Mr. O'Hara's
posting;
2, Incorrect (i.e. lacking) capitalization;
3, Incorrect sentence structures;
Alas:
·
Mr. O'Hara's posting was
quite to the point.
·
Yahbo's posting was not,
but did reveal the poster's competency level in a number of areas;
Most
important:
·
I take the "i,ll try
to refrain myself [...]" as a promise.
Unfortunately,
there is nothing the List Police can do with the current development on
TT Watch without full moderation. The more "interesting" stuff
we get the higher probability that many of us will become less frequent
guests or leave this list.
I can't imagine (second though, I can *very well* imagine) what this
list will look like when things start to heat up.
Regards,
Jan
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5791
From:
"Jan" <jr@e...>
Date:
Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:11 pm
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] ZetaTalk update
Brian,
I think you have apples and oranges mixed here.
Your definition of the troublesome is *not* the kind referred to in the
posting I quoted from. In fact, I regard myself as one of your
"troublesome" in my search for the truth. The main difference
is that if such truth seekers get the right answer(s), they will
comprehend and go away, satisfied with the answer.
If you have ever been a supervisor, low or middle manager, project
leader, heading non-profit work or been in any other position where you
have been in charge of others and responsible for their work, you would
recognize the troublesome the Zetas referred to big time.
The most prominent characteristic of such persons is the inverse square
law of whining and complaining vs. contribution.
Regards,
Jan
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5796
From: brian_gillbanks@l...
Date:
Fri Aug 17, 2001 1:42 am
Subject:
RE: [tt-watch] ZetaTalk update/Witch-hunt
Before
I start I just want to point out that I'm not having a go at you
personally Jan. The last post although did contain material related to
your message as does this is really in reply to most of what I've read
and not just based on the attitude towards Mike. (It must be my alien
genes, but my ideals seem so distant from that of the general majority
that it saddens me. Perhaps it's time mankind did give way to something
new for I see nothing but torment and heartbreak for a very long time to
come.
I have been a supervising manager and a damned good one if I can blow my
own trumpet. I do know the troublesome as referred to by the Zeta's and
can spot the real STS at a 100 paces. I know their manner, their
attitude and their tactics well. I should do I live among them and have
learned the lessons well.
I can operate just as well in either STO or full STS mode depending on
surroundings and circumstances, but then my orientation is irrelevant.
Mikepip
is no more a disrupter than I am. (But then perhaps I am, who knows, the
Zeta's should, we're old enemies.) I might be wrong, I'm not perfect,
but unless someone out there can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt
something different then I'll stick with my gut feeling. To me he's just
not brave enough to come out and admit, out loud, that he's got doubts
about Nancy and the Zeta's. Instead, he uses each opportunity to point
out discrepancies with the Zeta message which others have possibly
noticed, but are too afraid to pass comment on. Masking it "in the
sake of others" text is just his attempt at
not coming across as selfish. Because first of all, let's face it God
forbid that
any of us might disagree with the alien's and second that any of us
might have
any personal interest and involvement. (That's STS and woe-betide anyone
who hints at that orientation.)
Yet wasn't the witch-hunt method a tried and tested weapon of the STS?
Weren't women once burned at the stake after being denounced as a Witch?
Could it be similar denounciations of "Disrupter", without one
shred of credible proof, are similar attempts here at manipulating the
membership into alienating another? All I can assume is that those
responsible have no doubts or conscience in the matter. Do they, for one
minute, not realise just how damning such actions really are? How the
other person might just feel if the accusation are wrong?
Well I can tell you - at it's simplest its bad, very bad, at it's worst
it can
take a life. So just ponder that for a second, although I doubt it's
even been considered. Right about now they're probably thinking "So
what....!"
OK then let's simplify. Just where does the line actually get drawn? If
you're not careful, pretty soon everyone becomes a disrupter simply for
asking a question, God forbid actually disagreeing with Nancy. Now the
contributions thin. No one wants to be a disruptor. And that's also when
any input ceases to be credible, because no one can be trusted. End of
story, good bye membership good bye TT. (Ok that's exaggerating a bit,
but you get the point.) So I suggest the membership starts to examine
more carefully the motives of those who so easily resort to the hue and
cry methodology as I suggest their
orientation and actions may be more in question than those on the
receiving end.
Unfortunately Mike hadn't learned that there are many here who have
already made up their minds and although prepared for a coming
catastrophe are not prepared to listen to any other standpoint. Their
myopic view the only one to be voiced with very little accepted
tolerance for anything else. (That's one of the reasons I stopped
posting. After all what right do I or anyone else have to point out any
Zeta misgivings? And boy are there a few. In fact so many there probably
isn't enough polyfiller in the US to fill them all in. But dare I ask to
try and rationalise the discrepancies. Hell no. Besides if they can't be
seen already why should it be pointed out? Come the day the lesson will
either be learned or not so what difference does it make? Either that or
I run the risk of posting one too many or try to be too helpful and
become an even greater risk.)
Basically what anyone feels about Mike should be their own personal
opinion and theirs alone. Ok if you dislike his posts don't read them.
That way it saves the aggravation and multiple postings on useless
banter. If you disagree then say so, but don't make it personal. That's
what individualism is all about. You have your opinion, they have theirs
and probably never the twain will meet. If the New World means we have
to give up that right then I'll fight tooth, nail and alien to see it
never happens. But branding anyone a disrupter with nothing more than
personal bias is nothing less than dark age mentallity. (Besides from
where I sit you could say more guilt lies in the direction of Nancy/Zeta
and
Sci-astro on the disruption side of things and I don't see anyone
throwing shit
in that direction. (I was under the impression that TT was about
spiritual and physical preparation not a Zeta fan club, although I could
be wrong.)
I dare say this will cause a lot of flack. Who knows I too may become
one of the famous branded, although I'm not that bothered, like I said I
don't kick in much. It's a bit like banging your head against a brick
wall, but then that's my cross to bear.
As a closing note Mike told me he won't be staying on TT - God that'll
probably
ensure his guilt, now. (Or could it be the tar and feathering worked?)
Personally I hope he sticks around, that way at least he'll piss someone
off. (Anything further should go to Social, this is not really the
bitching line.)
Brian (Angel Isle)
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5797
From: brian_gillbanks@l...
Date:
Fri Aug 17, 2001 2:53 am
Subject:
RE: [tt-watch] ZetaTalk update
Sorry
to continue this on Watch but I thought those who receive it should see
this.
Jan I did a bit of checking and from 3/31/200 and 6/1/2001 his postings
totalled 54. (I gave up after that due to tiredness. Also I could be off
a bit as I had to check the lists visually reading each in turn for
content so might have missed a few.) Out of that 54 I could only find 12
of a dissenting nature, in that they did not totally agree with Nancy,
but there was nothing which could be interpreted as his being
disruptive. Sceptic, yes. The other 42 were of a contributary nature
either through input or in defence of members/Nancy or the Zeta's. (If I
get the chance I'll bring it up to date and post the total.
Interesting how Mikes contributions actually outweighs his complaining.
Perhaps his whining is all lumped together after that date?
Brian (Angel Isle)
-----Original Message-----
From:
Jan [mailto:jr@e...]
Sent:
16 August 2001 21:11
To:
TT Watch
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] ZetaTalk update
The most prominent characteristic of such persons is the inverse square
law of whining and complaining vs. contribution.
Regards,
Jan
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5799
From:
"Jan" <jr@e...>
Date:
Fri Aug 17, 2001 6:51 am
Subject:
TT Watch abuse
Folks,
Please read Clipper's posting of list rules below. If this list
continues to be a whiner's forum, it will no longer fill its purpose,
and the whiners may find themselves alone in here, sharing their
complaints with each others.
I used to enjoy this forum because news from all over the world which
may or may not be related to Planet X and it's effects on the Earth have
been available on this list. I would never be able to get around to
research all the news feeds myself.
If Michael L. Cunningham comments all such posts that they are not
conclusive evidence Planet X is inbound exists and/or exists, mikepip
and others voice their dismay with Nancy because she has had the guts to
answer a question they did not find to be important, this list has
ceased to fulfill its purpose, and I would have to start researching
such news myself after unsubscribing from this list.
And no, that is *no* promise that I will unsubscribe. In fact, I think
the list police should start unsubscribing some of those that seem to
have problems with understanding what this list is all about.
Regards,
Jan
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5800
From:
"Jan" <jr@e...>
Date:
Fri Aug 17, 2001 6:49 am
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] ZetaTalk update
Brian,
Got a reading problem, eh?
The quoted comment was not directed at Mike, but a general comment on
whiners as a response to your lengthy, off-target response.
To repeat my original statement; Mike, you or I have no right to decide
how Nancy or any other person is using her or his time. If Mike actually
wanted to question why Nancy and the Zetas did comment on the JonBenet
Ramsey case, he could have put such a question forward in a polite
manner. Who knows, he could even have gotten a polite answer from Nancy
or somebody on her behalf.
Stop this BS now, will you!?
Jan
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5810
From:
"Sol" <volimerc@y...>
Date:
Fri Aug 17, 2001 1:07 pm
Subject:
Witch-hunt / TT Watch abuse
From:
brian_gillbanks@lineone.net
>>But
branding anyone a disrupter with nothing more than personal bias is
nothing less than dark age mentallity.<<
From:
Jan
Subject:
[tt-watch] TT Watch abuse
>>>In
fact, I think the list police should start unsubscribing some of those
that seem to have problems with understanding what this list is all
about.<<<
I entirely agree that wholesale
labeling of people as "disruptors" or "subversives"
is a nasty thing to do, it's not the right way to run a membership-based
group. This is in fact a well-known technique used by dictatorial
regimes to keep their subjects under control. People become afraid to
freely voice their opinions, lest they become ostracized, banned,
or otherwise punished.
I'd hate to think that we're acting in a similar manner here, and that's
why the list police is NOT unsubscribing everybody who's postings don't
appear to be to everyone's liking.
This is, birefly, the purpose of this group:
"Troubled
Times Watch - chatters about the topics in The Word section such as
the government, UFO's, weather, news articles and yes, even a few
conspiracy theories once in a while..."
I feel that asking questions and voicing opinions about the above topics
is included in this purpose, and that's why contrary opinions and
"stumbling" questions are definitely permitted here. Not
everybody has to spout the "party line" all the time, as I
like to say.
However, one should also keep in mind that this group is basically here
for people who ALREADY BELIEVE in the Nibiru arrival/2003 Pole Shift
scenario. As the list rules say, we're "not in the business of
converting anybody". If somebody finds that he consistently
disagrees with ideas or facts as they're presented here - then such a
person SHOULDN'T BE HERE. Otherwise, a continually disagreeing voice
becomes a nagging distraction, and thus a disruption to the proper
working of this list.
I don't think that MikePip is what we'd ordinarily call "a
disruptor", but he seems to have gotten carried away with pretty
much saying the same thing over and over again, for example demanding
that Nancy do and say certain things. Nobody owes you anything, MikePip,
and your insinuation that someone does - is simply egocentric and
childish. So you shouldn't be surprised if some people think you're a
whiner. Making needlessly repetetive postings here, and continually
directing them against the Zeta message or its
messenger - that's not polite behavior, in any group.
I hope these "personal thrusts" will quiet down now, and we'll
continue getting the interesting news and discussions that we're used to
have from this list. I'd like to ask everyone to try and refrain from
personal attacks or put-downs, as much as possible.
Another thing we can try to do, in order to make our experience here
more pleasant, is try to post only serious "content" messages
on this list. Try to minimize the amount of "that's great" or
"I agree" messages, which say nothing and simply clutter the
mailbox. We should reply with something like that only if we can add to
the message already posted. Otherwise we get long threads here with only
one or two really informative message there out of ten. One can assume
here that one's postings are being attentively read and
agreed to here, there's no need for continual reassurance in that
regard. This is just a friendly suggestion, which may help to cut down
amount of unnecessary messages here.
Sol
------o-----
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5815
From:
j-smith6@h...
Date:
Fri Aug 17, 2001 4:31 pm
Subject:
Re: Witch-hunt / TT Watch abuse
I
agree, we need to stop this. I have hesitated to post the last couple of
days as I am obviously a skeptic. I hope this has helped some as I have
asked many questions and many have responded with some very good
information. Things seem a bit out of control lately. Let's all take a
deep breath and get our focus back.
I disagree with the attitude that anyone here should not question
Zetatalk and other information being posted. If we were the type of
people that believe what we are told, we wouldn't be here. We would
instead blindly believe what NASA and our governments tell us. Lets keep
this in mind when someone shows skepticism, they are probably not a
disrupter, just showing that characteristic that led them here in the
first place.
And if Nancy wants to play in sci.astro, well thats up to her. My
personal opinion is that this hurts our cause as Zetatalk gets grouped
with the guy doing cold fusion at home, the moon landing hoax crowd and
other crackpots. Regardless, if this is what Nancy wants to do with her
time that is up to her. I can only imagine the stress of her position.
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5820
From:
Nancy Lieder <zetatalk@z...>
Date:
Fri Aug 17, 2001 9:46 pm
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Re: Witch-hunt / TT Watch abuse
Thank
you. I'd like to add that it is also NANCY's choice, which somehow those
who are yelling that I should discuss matters only in the little closet
that is tt-watch miss. This is NOT a group decision. And in addition,
posting on sci.astro gets potentially a large number of people looking,
or the establishment fears this anyway, so deep coverup is not possible.
This is WHY some (I won't name) keep trying to get me to leave sci.astro
and/or spread disinfo on what ZetaTalk has said about Planet X.
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5826
From:
Chris StClair <cstclr@y...>
Date:
Sat Aug 18, 2001 12:17 am
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Dismayed my foot
---
Mike O'Hara <ppplanet@a...>
wrote:
"mikepip@a..."
writes:
>>>>"I
was dismayed to see that the Zetas/Nancy had the time and desire to
comment in length about the Jon Benet Ramsey
case!"<<<<<<<
There
are many of us who sit back and say little but nonetheless make
judgments about Nancy's credibility. Most of us just don't waste our
time posting.
Nancy's comments on Jon Benet (and I am quite sure they are Nancy's
comments and not the Zetas) are another pie in the face of her
credibility.
Chris
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5827
From:
munypenny@a...
Date:
Sat Aug 18, 2001 12:31 am
Subject:
Re: Dismayed my foot
i
think it is ridiculous for us continue to insist that other people are
'liars' or are working for the 'bad guys' unless we know them
personally. mike pip tends to enjoy nitpicking and does not stop making
comments on the efficiency of the TT and zetatalk operations, but this
does not make him an obvious intentional disruptor. In fact, i am
willing to bet that no one who posts on this forum is employed by any
agency with an agenda of disruption, although possible.
im sure many people sympathise with mike's desire for greater efficiency
and concentration of efforts on key, and specific tasks. I think his
irritation arises from the fact that nancy can take the time to ask the
zetas about psychological idiosyncracies of humanity, but cannot take
the time out her busy schedule to aggressively petition observatories to
make a consented search for the 12th.
Many people wish they could organise the efforts of TT / ZT in an
alternate sort of way, and just because they are vocal about this desire
does not mean they are trying to self-destruct everything. I often find
the critical points of such people as Michael C., Mike P. and Niels to
be some of the most rewarding posts on the boards, because normally the
most effective and important advice comes from critical commentary.
However, it is important to remember that we cannot force change
organisational choices by posting our criticisms over and over again,
regardless if we think Nancy ignored us the first time, or not. It's
simply inefficient and I suggest that such individuals stop wasting
their energy making a stream of critical comments, and try instead to do
the work themselves, and offer it to Nancy.
I also suspect that such individuals who spend most of their time
offering critical organisational advice do not spend enough time
preparing for the possibility of a pole shift in a real, material way. I
could be wrong of course, but I’m guessing they spend so much time
offering criticism because they have alot of energy in their mind over
the whole ZetaTalk issue, but arent excercising outward enough, by
making lifestyle changes. It's still more of an intellectual issue for
them than a lifestyle one. They consequently butt heads with people who
have put the whole intellectual aspect side to concentrate on learning
how to survive in the post-shift world. these people (the ones who are
working on preparing and have lost interest in questioning nancy) see
the intellectual nitpicking as a sign of lack of faith; and these people
are operating on faith to such a high extent that the existence of the
intellectual nitpickers is quite disturbing.
As in most cases, the middle ground is the most favourable. The
analytical individuals should learn to concentrate their intellect more
on real survival strategies and organising efforts to have a mass
telescopic viewing of the 12th, and the dutiful preparers who appear
irked by those who are constantly questioning nancy should learn that
this is not the rain on their parade, but that criticism is a healthy
and necessary aspect of community relationships.
regardless of what the case is, it gets us absolutely nowhere to
distrust our neighbors here, and dichotomize our ranks, because precious
few people will listen to ZT in the first place! The ability to organise
our efforts and use everyones different abilities and talents into one
constructive preparation organisation would make all of our efforts and
agendas come through all the faster. With that in mind, let's not try to
make enemies out of one another. I for one, want to cooperate with
everyone here, and give mutual help to all people, and would like to
think that everyone else feels the same way, considering that they know
what service-to-other is if they have read ZT. why, then, must we
continue to divide ? why, then, must we view other people's opinions and
criticisms as poison rather than important insight? dont let paranoia
toward your neighbor enslave you.
sincerely,
Brian Kelly
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5828
From:
ppplanet@a...
Date:
Sat Aug 18, 2001 12:39 am
Subject:
Re: Dismayed my foot
Chris
St. Clair writes:
>
Nancy's comments on Jon Benet (and I am quite sure
they are Nancy's comments and not the Zetas) are
another pie in the face of her credibility.<
Ka-ka.
If you didn't sense some credibility to what the Zetas and Nancy are
saying, you wouldn't have hung around this mailing list as long as you
suggest you have.
Now,
let's get more specific: What aspect of the Zeta analysis of the Ramsey
situation lacks credibility? The future STS lieutenants are crawling out
of the woodwork now!
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5829
From:
Beenthdonedat@a...
Date:
Sat Aug 18, 2001 1:25 am
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Dismayed my foot
In
a message dated 8/17/01 7:18:50 PM Central Daylight Time, cstclr@yahoo.com
writes:
>>Nancy's
comments on Jon Benet (and I am quite sure they are Nancy's comments and
not the Zetas) are another pie in the face of her credibility.<<
I would say that if eventually the Ramsey's are tried and convicted, it
would be pie on the faces of the ones who question the Zetas'
credibility. Horatio.
[No
one to this day has been charged with the murders so I guess that
constitutes “pie in the face.”]
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5919
From:
Chris StClair <cstclr@y...>
Date:
Wed Aug 22, 2001 12:30 am
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Re: Dismayed my foot
---
ppplanet@a... wrote:
Chris
St. Clair writes:
>>
Nancy's comments on Jon Benet (and I am quite sure they are Nancy's
comments and not the Zetas) are another pie in the face of her
credibility.<<
>Ka-ka.<
I assume this is the most
intelligent comment you could muster.
> If you didn't sense some
credibility to what the Zetas and Nancy are saying, you wouldn't have
hung around this mailing list as long as you suggest you have.<
Sorry, but there are many reasons to
check out this list. The fact that you can only think of one reason does
not mean that there may not be many more reasons that haven't occurred
to you.
I'm on the list because this is an interesting topic, because I believe
Planet X will be back sooner or later and because I'm curious as to
whether any corroboration for the Zeta postings will be presented. I am
open to the possibility that they exist and that
they may be correct.
So far, absolutely no evidence has been presented to establish that the
Zetas exist, that their message (whoever is writing it) is correct, or
that Planet X will be visiting in the next few years. And Nancy's
frivolous postings on Jon Benet definitely take away from her
credibility.
> Now, let's get more specific:
What aspect of the Zeta analysis of the Ramsey situation lacks
credibility?<
You assume facts not in evidence.
There is no evidence the Ramsey opinion was from the Zetas even assuming
they exist. I specifically stated I did not think the post was from the
Zetas. And I didn't say the analysis lacks credibility. I said Nancy
lacks credibility. By posting on a topic that would be of no interest to
true aliens, and by posting comments that clearly come from someone who
is very familiar with this culture, Nancy has revealed that someone who
was raised in this US made these comments. If you were raised in the US
and if you've ever lived in a foreign country and tried to analyze
obscure events in that country you would realize how difficult it is
even for a human to get inside the head of another human from a foreign
culture. That Nancy would try to have us believe that
a Zeta would care about or write the Jon Benet commentary is laughable.
Quite frankly if the Zetas are spending their time reading the National
Enquirer,
they have also lost their credibility.
>The
future STS lieutenants are crawling out of the woodwork now!<
It's quite clear you lack the ammo
for a flame war. I find it interesting though that the most intelligent
and most courteous posts on this list are usually from people who
question the Zeta message. Those who mindlessly believe the Zeta message
are the ones who
are most consistently rude.
Chris
------o------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/5924
From:
"Jan" <jr@e...>
Date:
Wed Aug 22, 2001 8:56 am
Subject:
Re: [tt-watch] Dismayed my foot
I
find that very few people seem to understand why the Zetas are
interested in our upcoming Pole Shift and what their agenda is.
The Pole Shift is a given. Whether the Zetas could do anything about
that, they would not be allowed by the Council of Worlds, nor do I think
they would want to "save" us so that the massive die-off does
not occur. Why on Earth should anyone try to preserve the current state
of affairs? As is, Planet Earth would not deserve any such actions,
currently in the hands of greedy STS CEOs and power-hungry military,
politicians &
bureaucrats as she is.
The Zetas' interest is mainly the Transformation, in that this planet is
destined to become a 4th density home for STOs. The Transformation takes
place mainly in the hearts and minds of people, learning to be more
concerned with their surroundings and fellow beings and less concerned
with themselves. In this context, the JonBenet Ramsey information, just
as the rest of the information in the "Being Human" section is
among the most
important information on the ZT site.
Those that do not understand this aspect of the Pole Shift and the
Transformation will be in for a rough time ahead indeed. The more
self-centered and panicky they get, the less assistance they can expect
from the Zetas or their fellow beings preparing for the PS and
Transformation.
Regards,
Jan
------o------
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